This back and forth is getting beyond tiresome. I cannot begin to count the number of people who have totally and completely missed the point of the “Taking of the Knee” during our National Anthem. Maybe a re-visitation to the 1968 Mexican Summer Olympics is in order for some. But, I imagine the same enraged vexation that was caused when two athletes raised their fists as protest (while standing on the winner’s podiums) would not be cited as the same today. After all, people of color (a very few…not all!) were burning their own cities, forming community groups such as the Black Panthers and political groups such as CORE and SNCC. You know, being all uppity and demanding equal rights in a country that had practiced unequal housing, employment, wages and political access, yet by its very Constitutional bylaws ensured such rights to all free men. So, you still wonder why African Americans are upset?
So…why are they so angry today? Why are so many STILL feeling disenfranchised? You see, this is the point you fail to see. Only the list is longer and many more colors have been added to that list. Equal employment for a living wage? As any West Virginian, how that’s working out. Equal pay for equal work. Ask any female how that’s working out. Gun violence in our inner cities, black on black crime and murders. Ask any inner-city person of ANY color, just how is that working out. Fair and equable treatment of the poor, disenfranchised, person of color by our judicial system…yeah, just ask. Anyone. Police protection? Well, we’ve seen what the statistics are when it comes to cops shooting citizens, versus the other way around. Prosecution rate? Yeah. I thought so.
There are some seriously wrong things here. Has been for a long, long time. I cannot remember a time in my lifetime that someone, somewhere hasn’t spit out the N-word in a conversation like they were talking about vermin. The latest take on racial prejudices has been brought to the fore by the present occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue through his rhetoric of building walls to keep out People of Color. Travel bans on certain countries to keep out People of Color. Aside comments and outright lies to demean and demonize a certain past President of Color. These racial divide issues and xenophobia actions have been in the pipeline for a long, long time now. Stirred up by the disciples of the Tea Party and the Right Winged faction of the Republican Political Party. It continues even as you read these. Take a knee? Hell, I WISH it were that simple. What you forget, we ALL forget…Protest is the LAST bastion of conversation before the fighting begins. It is EVERY American’s right to protest. This protest is NOT about your precious time in the jungles of Nam. It is NOT about Old Glory. It is NOT about the sanctity and tradition of America and her freedom. It is about yours and mine attitudes and our daily walk among our fellow citizens and how we treat those who work, live and play alongside us, while looking, believing, and living differently than us. It is compassion for our fellow brother/sister and finding within ourselves what is truly so wrong, that someone has to make us angry to see it. Taking a knee is telling America, us and the world, something is seriously wrong here. Plain and simple. Those that refuse to see it…are part of what is seriously wrong.
Paul Plante says
What I personally find to be exceedingly tiresome, Chas Cornweller, is living in a nation with an average IQ trending somewhere around 15 now, down from 18 last week, where people who are supposed to be productive citizens know nothing whatsoever about what being a citizen of a Republic, not a democracy, requires of them, and yes, here I am including these football players who take the knee at these football games of theirs.
You say: “I cannot begin to count the number of people who have totally and completely missed the point of the ‘Taking of the Knee’ during our National Anthem.”
Oh, really?
Does that make you the only living person in America, then, who has not missed the point?
Might that be a statement made in a sense of superiority, and perhaps arrogance and self-righteousness, Chas Cornweller, or could it be interpreted that way by the reader?
As to the STAGED STUNT pulled at the 1968 Mexican Summer Olympics that seems so significant to you in your bombastic polemic above, here is what Wikipedia says about that, and incidentally, I was in the Army when that happened, 22 years old, not 19, on my way to my precious time in the jungles of Nam, while you were a paperboy, so it is not surprising that we might see the event through different eyes:
The 1968 Olympics Black Power salute was a political demonstration conducted by African-American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos during their medal ceremony at the 1968 Summer Olympics in the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City.
end quotes
Black power salutes, Chas Cornweller.
Do you remember what those meant?
To help your memory, Wikipedia tells us as follows:
The black fist, also known as the Black Power fist is a logo generally associated with black nationalism and sometimes socialism.
Its most widely known usage is by the Black Panther Party in the 1960s.
end quotes
As to “black nationalism,” here is what Wikipedia has to say on that subject:
Black nationalism is a type of nationalism or pan-nationalism which holds the belief that black people are a race and seeks to develop and maintain a black national identity.
Black nationalist activism revolves around social, political, and economic empowerment of black communities and people, especially to resist assimilation into white American culture (through integration or otherwise), and maintain a distinct black identity.
end quotes
There is what you are promoting in here, Chas Cornweller, with your praise of the Black Power salute at the 1968 Olympics, including gross ignorance, because there is no such thing as a “black race,” except in the warped and twisted minds of those who delude themselves into thinking that way.
All human beings, regardless of skin color, are of one race, Chas Cornweller, despite your obvious insistence that it is otherwise.
And study up on this statement on “black nationalism” for a moment if you will, Chas Cornweller, because we are sure to be back to it in here again and again:
Black nationalist activism revolves around social, political, and economic empowerment of black communities and people, especially to resist assimilation into white American culture.
end quote
Black people want their own world,, and you kn0w what, Chas Cornweller, they have it.
They have created the miserable world they created, so they own it, not the white people who the blacks want no part of, as they maintain their own distinct black identity which was perhaps best exemplified by the black thug Michael Brown out in Ferguson, Missouri who tried to overpower a white police officer and lost the battle, making the whole world a much better place without him in it as a result, and no, Chas Cornweller, I don’t “celebrate” Michael Brown of Feguson, Missouri.
As to the Black Panthers you seem so enamoured of, Wikipedia tells us the Black Panther Party was a revolutionary black nationalist and socialist organization founded by Bobby Seale and Huey Newton in October 1966 and it was active in the United States from 1966 until 1982 when popular support for the Party declined after reports appeared detailing the group’s involvement in illegal activities such as drug dealing and extortion schemes directed against Oakland merchants.
Sing Hallelujah and say Amen for the Black Panthers, because that is what you are promoting with your support of their Black Power salute – drug dealing and extortion schemes, and doesn’t that make you feel all warm and squishy inside?
But getting back to Wikipedia and the STAGED STUNT at the 1968 Olympics, after having won gold and bronze medals, respectively, in the 200-meter running event, they (Tommie Smith and John Carlos) turned on the podium to face their flags, and to hear the American national anthem, “The Star-Spangled Banner”.
Each athlete raised a black-gloved fist, and kept them raised until the anthem had finished.
The event is regarded as one of the most overtly political statements in the history of the modern Olympic Games.
end quotes
What, Chas Cornweller, are overt political statements doing in the Olympics, which are supposed to bring people together, as football is said to do, but doesn’t?
Can you edify us on that subject?
Wikipedia continues as follows:
On the morning of 16 October 1968, US athlete Tommie Smith won the 200 meter race with a world-record time of 19.83 seconds, Australia’s Peter Norman finished second with a time of 20.06 seconds, and the US’s John Carlos won third place with a time of 20.10 seconds.
After the race was completed, the three went to the podium for their medals to be presented by David Cecil, 6th Marquess of Exeter.
The two US athletes received their medals shoeless, but wearing black socks, to represent black poverty while Smith wore a black scarf around his neck to represent black pride.
Carlos had his tracksuit top unzipped to show solidarity with all blue-collar workers in the US and wore a necklace of beads which he described “were for those individuals that were lynched, or killed and that no-one said a prayer for, that were hung and tarred.”
“It was for those thrown off the side of the boats in the Middle Passage.”
Sociologist Harry Edwards, the founder of the OPHR, had urged black athletes to boycott the games; reportedly, the actions of Smith and Carlos on 16 October 1968 were inspired by Edwards’s arguments.
Both US athletes intended to bring black gloves to the event, but Carlos forgot his, leaving them in the Olympic Village.
It was Peter Norman who suggested Carlos wear Smith’s left-handed glove.
For this reason, Carlos raised his left hand as opposed to his right, differing from the traditional Black Power salute.
When The Star-Spangled Banner played, Smith and Carlos delivered the salute with heads bowed, a gesture which became front page news around the world.
As they left the podium they were booed by the crowd.
Smith later said, “If I win, I am American, not a black American.”
“But if I did something bad, then they would say I am a Negro.”
“We are black and we are proud of being black.”
“Black America will understand what we did tonight.”
Tommie Smith stated in later years that “We were concerned about the lack of black assistant coaches.”
“About how Muhammad Ali got stripped of his title.”
“About the lack of access to good housing and our kids not being able to attend the top colleges.”
end quote
Black America, Chas Cornweller, pray tell, where is it?
It is a different country, isn’t it, from our America, or at least my America, an America where everyone regardless of skin color is equal, as opposed to black America, where everyone is decidedly not equal, and black people, who want to be totally segregated from white people and all other people, for that matter, aren’t Americans like you and I are, or at least as I am, because I am not sure that you and I are even the same kind of Americans, although we all supposedly live in the same nation.
So who really has the problem there, Chas Cornweller?
I would say it was the two Black Power dudes, while you would say it was all the white people in this country with our white privilege and white guilt and implicit bias, as your hero, Hillary Clinton tells us.
As to the hypocrisy and total bull**** nature of those statements made by Tommie Smith and John Carlos, first of all, there would have been no black people thrown off the side of the boats in the Middle Passage if the black people in Africa had not enslaved their fellow black people in Africa to sell them for trinkets to the Arabs and others looking to buy slaves.
But for the black people in Africa selling their black brothers and sisters into slavery, there would have been no black slaves, so suck that one up, Chas Cornweller.
As to this bull**** statement about “our kids not being able to attend the top colleges,” at the time Tommie Smith was making that bull**** statement, it is matter of public record that he himself went to San José State University on a scholarship, while John Carlos went to East Texas State University on a full track-and-field scholarship, and after his first year, Carlos enrolled at San Jose State University where he was trained by future National Track & Field Hall of Fame coach, Lloyd (Bud) Winter.
So what is this bull**** about their sons not being able to get into good colleges, other than bull****?
And note the involvement of the sociologist Harry Edwards there, who had urged black athletes to boycott the games.
As to Harry Edwards, a black man, at the time of the 1968 Olympics, he had completed his Ph.D. at Cornell University, which happens to be one of this nation’s top colleges that a lot of white people can’t get into, so what is the hypocritical bull**** about their sons not being able to get into top colleges?
Why is that, Chas Cornweller?
Isn’t it because their sons have been taught by their fathers to have no part in white society, lest they be labeled an “Uncle Tom” or “Oreo cookie” by their black breathen?
And then you say, “After all, people of color (a very few…not all!) were burning their own cities, forming community groups such as the Black Panthers and political groups such as CORE and SNCC.”
Yes, Chas Cornweller, they were burning cities, but those cities were not their own, because black people in this country, just like white people, do not own cities to burn.
What they were burning and looting was the property of others, which you seem to condone, while I don’t.
And then you say, “You know, being all uppity and demanding equal rights in a country that had practiced unequal housing, employment, wages and political access, yet by its very Constitutional bylaws ensured such rights to all free men.”
That happened to be, Chas Cornweller, right at the same time LBJ had his Great Society program running, and he had acceded to Black Power demands by signing what was supposed to be major civil rights legislation to meet those demands.
But you know what, Chas Cornweller, it wasn’t enough, and for those people, it never will be enough.
And then you say, “So, you still wonder why African Americans are upset?”
And the answer in NO, Chas Cornweller, actually I don’t, especially as I am around black people who get up every day, who are law abiding, who love this country, and who get off their dead ***** each day to go to work as productive members of society, and to educate themselves to become doctors and nurses and such so they can fit into the same multi-ethnic society I am a part of.
So I guess I am associating with the wrong kind of black people here, the successful ones, the Uncle Toms, and Oreo cookies who sell out black America by going out to work in “the white man’s world,” as your black people who don’t like white people call it.
So be it, Chas Cornweller, you have your side of the street to walk on, while I have mine, and perhaps one day, the twain shall meet, but it won’t be because I have changed my attitudes.
It would only happen if black America changes theirs, and frankly, Chas Cornweller, I don’t see that happening in my remaining lifetime, so yes, we will agree as gentlemen to disagree, and Chas Cornweller, have yourself a glorious day.
tkenny says
A fairly myopic view of history. Event’s just don’t suddenly happen and Wikipedia isn’t really going to give you any context.
Why or how did the Black Panther movement start? Just like the National Anthem kneeling, you either can’t or won’t see what is behind it. Imagine being black in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s The “..all men being equal …” crap doesn’t ring true. You can’t drink from the same water fountain as whites, you have to sit in the back of the bus, you go to different schools, you enter establishments through another door. The assimilation of blacks into society just isn’t working, the perfect ingredients for the creation of the Black Panther Party.
Your twisting of events to make the Mexico Olympic demonstration mentioned above more than just a political statement is comical. The year is 1968, the participants have no idea what will become of the Black Panthers in the years to follow. Most of the supporters for the demonstrations are black. The National Anthem kneeling seems to have support from both blacks and whites. It’s not militant and it seems to be asking for dialogue.
So, if you don’t like it don’t attend a football game, tune in later to the game on TV. Just stop. They have a right to do what they are doing, it doesn’t harm anyone. It’s not against the law. If you don’t like it, stop bitching and stop watching.
Paul Plante says
tkenny, people always enjoy it so much when you interject yourself into these discussions with a veritable spout of gibberish that threatens to sweep us all away like a Tsunami, which is a statement of praise for how accomplished you are at using gibberish as a debating tool.
I don’t have a television, tkenny, and haven’t had one in years, by choice.
A television in your house is like having a sewer outfall in your living room, filling your home and mind with ****.
No wonder, tkenny, this is such a sick nation.
And I don’t watch football, either, because all in all, I find it a stupid and boring game where a bunch of big men push at each other and shove each other around, and occasionally stomp on each other, to please the crowd who comes to watch the mindless violence.
As to the Black Panthers, tkenny, I was alive and aware back then, just as I was when that CHEAP POLITICAL STUNT was pulled at the Olympics in Mexico, and I recall hearing from its founders and members what it was all about in their words.
And I had for a friend a black woman from Chicago who knew the Black Panthers quite well, and so, I have her perspective as a black woman as to her take on them, and tkenny, you make yourself sound ignorant and uninformed, which you most likely are, when you say the black folks supported the Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers were into violence, and violent acts, tkenny, and most black people aren’t, which gave them no defense to Black Panther violence, which you then twist around as a show of support.
How juvenile.
And what is this horse**** about John Carlos at the 1968 Olympics having his tracksuit top unzipped to show solidarity with all blue-collar workers in the US?
John Carlos had about as much in common with blue-collar workers in the US as the man in the moon or Mr. Clean.
My father happened to be a blue-collar worker, tkenny, and John Carlos had nothing in common with him, nor was my father, a WWII veteran who did stand for the Star Spangled Banner, as did all of my blue-collar relatives and the blue-collar workers in my community, in solidarity with John Carlos, on anything.
As I said above, tkenny, that so-called Olympics protest in 1968 was nothing more than a CHEAP STAGED POLITICAL STUNT which proved nothing and which solved nothing.
You can worship it and celebrate it all you want, tkenny, because as you keep pointing out, it is a free country.
As for me, I will continue to call it what it was, a CHEAP STAGED POLITCAL STUNT, and take a pass on celebrating it, as is my right.
And talk about myopic, tkenny, all that blather of yours about “You can’t drink from the same water fountain as whites, you have to sit in the back of the bus, you go to different schools, you enter establishments through another door,” was restricted to the Democrat Party-controlled south.
That **** did not exist in most of the rest of the United States of America, as you try to make it seem.
And the Black Panthers began far from the Democrat Party-controlled south where Democrat Party Jim Crow laws reigned.
At its inception on October 15, 1966, tkenny, the Black Panther Party’s core practice was its armed citizens’ patrols to monitor the behavior of officers of the Oakland Police Department, which is in California, not the south.
The Black Panthers enrolled the largest number of members and made the greatest impact in the Oakland-San Francisco Bay Area, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, and Philadelphia.
No southern cities in the list, are there, tkenny.
At the time of the 1968 Olympics in Mexico, Black Panther Party members were involved in many fatal firefights with police including Huey Newton allegedly killing officer John Frey in 1967 and the 1968 Eldridge Cleaver led ambush of Oakland police officers which wounded two officers and killed Panther Bobby Hutton, so people all over this country back then certainly did know who the Black Panthers were.
As to Newton and Seale, they first met in 1962 when they were both students at Merritt College, a two-year community college located in the Oakland Hills section of Oakland in Alameda County, California.
Where is the oppression in that, tkenny?
Point it out to us, if you can, we’re patient, we will wait.
And while you are formulating your response, tkenny, have yourself a glorious day.
Janet Sturgis says
Chas Cornweller
Amen.
Thank you for this beautiful, thoughtful,well written piece.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Yes, Mr. Kenny it is atrocious what the Democrat party has done to the black family since the 1860’s.
Insofar as their ‘right’ to do so………I disagree. They are at work, just like you and I are at work. Neither of us is allowed to spout off about our politics at work, and neither should they be able to.
I am not paying the bonds on Giants stadium to get lectured to by multi-millionaire morons who do not realize that THEY are the perfect exemplars of America’s promise.
Work hard, excel at your job and prosper, regardless of your background.
And yes, I and many many others HAVE stopped watching.
tkenny says
Well Paul if you don’t have a TV and you don’t watch football how does this kneeling effect you? The answer is – it doesn’t. You are taking the opportunity to climb that soapbox and spout off on your tilted view of the world. The frozen moments in history that you string together to support whatever view you have on a topic. If these were college papers on the topics you would be crushed.
As you profess to be the smartest man in the room, I’m quite astonished that black people didn’t support the Black Panthers as you stated. It must have been those southern whites or perhaps the North Koreans? I’ll do some research on that and get back to you. And one must assume the difference between a a cheap political stunt and a political demonstration is whether you think the cause is valid. For I can’t find any opinion that agrees with you that it was a cheap political stunt. However I have found numerous notations that Vice President Pence’s early leaving of a 49ers football game was a cheap political stunt.
So you go on and make a statement about membership in the Black Panthers that “No southern cities in the list”, eh? Hey Einstein, no southern black in their right mind would boast that they were a member. Does that make some kind of difference what cities had the most members. And just what does this have to do with kneeling during the National Anthem? FYI – it should be no surprise that in 1970 the largest cities were New York, Chicago, LA and Philadelphia. San Fran and Seattle were ranked 13 and 22.
Racism/oppression has no party affiliation. I don’t think any of the ” multi-millionaire morons” as you call them believe they are oppressed. However, they understand they have a platform in which they could help start a conversation. What about those white players kneeling beside them? What the hell is that? Are they oppressed too? Maybe they don’t see their world as black and white like some here do. Maybe they see a lot of grey. They know they made it and understand the opportunity to make it isn’t always on a level playing field. Working hard and excelling at your job doesn’t guarantee anymore that you will prosper.
And truth be told Mike the only reason you stopped watching football is because the Giants suck this year.
Paul Plante says
Whether I have a TV or not, tkenny, is absolutely irrelevant to anything being discussed in this thread.
I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN, tkenny, apparently one quite unlike you, which is not surprising, as we enter late-stage democracy here in the United States of America, with anarchy overwhelming law and order right before our eyes, which is what Jemmy Madison was talking about when he said in Federalist 10 that “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths,” so everything that disturbs the public order in this country effects me.
I should be surprised that you don’t know that, or cannot comprehend that, but frankly, tkenny, I’m not, because as I say, you and I live in two totally different worlds when it comes to citizenship duties and obligations.
I am for ORDER while you are for ANARCHY, and never the twain shall meet.
As to “taking the opportunity to climb that soapbox and spout off on tilted views of the world,” you are of course referring to our dear friend and colleague in here, Chas Cornweller, who, along with you, is one of the only living persons in America who has not missed the point of these football protests, while the rest of us are in your view, since we are not as intelligent as you, and never could be, totally clueless.
And I don’t profess to be the smartest man in the room, tkenny, for that position belongs to you already, so you have the claim on it, not I.
You say you are quite astonished that black people didn’t support the Black Panthers as I stated.
And I ask you why that would or should be?
Are you so ignorant and uninformed that you don’t know that every day, there are millions upon millions of black people in this country, including in our military and in our government and in our educational institutions and in our hospitals and health-care systems, who get up every morning just like all other LAW-ABIDING loyal Americans of all different skin colors and GO TO WORK to be productive citizens of the nation of which they are a part?
So what did the Black Panthers have to offer to them?
It’s like asking you what the anarchists you support have to offer the rest of us in this country who are law-abiding loyal Americans.
And then you say “Racism/oppression has no party affiliation,” but there you are dead wrong on two counts.
First of all, the concept of “racism,” which is defined as “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior,” is a totally discredited concept and has been since the end of WWII, when the Aryan Superman in Germany was defeated by the flag of the United States of America, which is all of its people, including the Japanese-Americans in the 442 Regimental Combat Team, which was the most decorated military unit in our Army in WWII.
Those were people who stood for something, including the Star Spangled Banner, unlike the anarchists you support today who stand for nothing at all but nihilism and chaos and destruction and suppression and oppression of those whose voices they don’t want heard.
So anyone talking about “racism” in America today in 2017, regardless of what skin color, is an idiot, plain and simple, because there are no separate races, only the human race, as should have been made clear to you in the Scientific American article “Race Is a Social Construct, Scientists Argue – Racial categories are weak proxies for genetic diversity and need to be phased out” by Megan Gannon, LiveScience on February 5, 2016 where you would have found as follows if you had bothered to read the article:
More than 100 years ago, American sociologist W.E.B. Du Bois was concerned that race was being used as a biological explanation for what he understood to be social and cultural differences between different populations of people.
He spoke out against the idea of “white” and “black” as discrete groups, claiming that these distinctions ignored the scope of human diversity.
Science would favor Du Bois.
Today, the mainstream belief among scientists is that race is a social construct without biological meaning.
end quote
And then, there is the New York Times article “Race and Racial Identity Are Social Constructs” by Angela Onwuachi-Willig, a professor of law at the University of Iowa College of Law, and the author of “According to Our Hearts: Rhinelander v. Rhinelander and the Law of the Multiracial Family.” on September 6, 2016, where we were informed as follows:
Race is not biological.
It is a social construct.
There is no gene or cluster of genes common to all blacks or all whites.
end quotes
So, tkenny, “race” is something people make up in their minds to believe in, with no scientific basis for doing so, and that starts with you, who are obviously still living in a different, more benighted century than the rest of us in this country who know that all people, regardless of skin color, are the same human beings we are.
So while you believe in the outmoded and discredited concept of “racism,” which means you believe all people are not of the same race, we don’t.
End of that story, tkenny.
And if these were college papers on the topics you are discussing, such as the outdated and discredited concept of people of different colors being different races, not all human beings, at all, you would be laughed right out of the classroom, and off the campus, as well.
As to oppression, tkenny, the Democrat party in this country has a long, long history of it, coming right up into our own times today.
Who, tkenny, besides you, can forget that in the 1870s, Democrats gradually regained power in the Southern legislatures by using insurgent paramilitary groups, such as the White League and Red Shirts, to disrupt Republican organizing, run Republican officeholders out of town, and intimidate blacks to suppress their voting.
The White League was an American white supremacist paramilitary terrorist organization started in 1874 to turn Republicans out of office and intimidate freedmen from voting and political organizing.
Affiliated with the Democratic Party, the White League was one of the paramilitary groups described as “the military arm of the Democratic Party,” and through violence and intimidation, its members suppressed Republican voting and contributed to the Democrats’ taking control of the Louisiana Legislature in 1876.
The Red Shirts or Redshirts of the Southern United States were white supremacist terrorist groups that were active in the late 19th century after the end of the Reconstruction era of the United States, and they first appeared in Mississippi in 1875, when Democratic Party private terror units adopted red shirts to make themselves more visible and threatening to Southern Republicans, both white and freedmen.
The Red Shirts were one of several paramilitary organizations arising in the continuing efforts of white Democrats to regain political power in the South in the 1870s.
These groups acted as “the military arm of the Democratic Party” and they had one goal: the restoration of the Democrats to power by getting rid of Republicans, which usually meant repressing civil rights and voting by the freedmen, and during the 1876, 1898 and 1900 campaigns in North Carolina, the Red Shirts played prominent roles in intimidating non-Democratic voters.
So there is some political oppression for you, tkenny, right from our own history books which you, in your towering arrogance, seem to be entirely ignorant of.
How come?
Because it is inconvenient for you?
But as to these “protests,” tkenny, in order to make you feel good about yourself and all warm and squishy inside, if a mob in Ferguson, Missouri has the privilege of burning, looting and destroying the property of others, because the law has not done what the mob wanted done, which was mob justice, which is their right, then of course some football players in the National Football League have the privilege of “taking the knee” to show their disloyalty to the United States of America, as opposed to allegiance, which is a form of sedition, where sedition is conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state, which happens to be the state to which I owe allegiance to as one of its citizens.
Back to you, tkenny, and meanwhile, while you are formulating your next response, on behalf of the loyal Americans in this country who take our citizenship responsibilities seriously, you have yourself a real glorious day.
Stuart Bell says
The Ghetto-Dance that is performed after making a goal is all you need to see to know the mentality of players today. How sweet it would be if they picked up the ball and went and handed it to the referee. They should act like they have been there before. I took a good look at the picture of the Raven’s players in England. They look like street thugs that you would see locked up in Jessup. They looked like hoodlums. I have never watched grown men in tights playing with balls and I am happy to see the NFL dissolve into the Liberal Progressive movement. It will end with them playing flag football like kids.
tkenny says
Hey Paul, … Buddy, you do realize it’s 2017 and not 1876, right?
Paul Plante says
In fact, tkenny, it is October 17, 2017 here where I am, and by my math 1876 was many, many years ago, before I was born.
And while we have you on the line here, tkenny, after further consideration, I realize I have to take back and modify what I said about if these were college papers on the topics you are discussing, such as the outdated and discredited concept of people of different colors being different races, not all human beings, at all, you would be laughed right out of the classroom, and off the campus, as well, which would not be true of you were taking or teaching either sociology or poli sci.
They would welcome you right in as one of them, because neither has a basis in science, just concepts like people of different skin colors actually being different races, and they would make you right at home.
And above here, tkenny, you made that statement “Event’s just don’t suddenly happen and Wikipedia isn’t really going to give you any context.”
What gives me context, tkenny, is the fact that I was alive in 1968 when all that stuff was happening, and in 1968, I was a member of the United States Armey, and I was surrounded by thousands of black people 24/7, many of whom were superior in rank to me, and so, I got to hear first hand how the black folk looked at life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the Black Panthers, as well, from their lips to my ears.
There is where I got my context from, tkenny, not from reading about the Black Panthers on Wikipedia or in a comic book.
For the record, tkenny, in 1968, I was 22 years old and on my way to spend my precious time in the jungles of Nam, while our dear friend Chas Cornweller was a paper boy some years younger than I, which explains our different perspectives on life.
So how old were you in 1968, tkenny?
Were you even born yet?
tkenny says
Paul you keep beating the “there is no race, other than the human race” drum until your hand falls off. It’s not widely accepted, though you would have us believe it is. Studies are still done by race in the medical/pharmaceutical fields, your government still has race classifications and so do your Universities and colleges.
So everyone, other than you is wrong. I understand that. I do have a couple of questions – if you believe there is only one race why do you use the adjectives white, black and asian to describe a person in your diatribes ?
If we are all one race can you explain why a cultural anthropologist or a coroner can examine a bag of bones and with a 95% accuracy determine whether they are the bones of a Caucasian , Black, Asian, etc.?
I’m done, this topic is over for me. Please don’t copy and paste the whole of the internet trying to support your view.
Paul Plante says
You won’t be missed, tkennjy, of that, I am quite sure.
As to “there is no race, other than the human race” being not widely accepted, that just goes to show how ignorant people really are in the United States of America, including the medical/pharmaceutical fields, the government which still has race classifications and our Universities and colleges.
As to it not being widely accepted, tkenny, you are talking through your hat and showing off your own igno9rance for all the world to see.
After the end of World War II, which is when I came into this world of woe, ykenny, scientific racism in theory and action was formally denounced, especially in UNESCO’s early antiracist statement “The Race Question” (1950), to wit:
“The biological fact of race and the myth of ‘race’ should be distinguished.”
“For all practical social purposes ‘race’ is not so much a biological phenomenon as a social myth.”
“The myth of ‘race’ has created an enormous amount of human and social damage.”
“In recent years, it has taken a heavy toll in human lives, and caused untold suffering”.
end quotes
RACE IS A SOCIAL MYTH, tkenny.
As to your question, “if I believe there is only one race why do I use the adjectives white, black and asian to describe a person?”
Because those are descriptive terms, tkenny, related to skin color or ethnic origin.
And regardless of those descriptive terms, they are all human beings.
And if we are all one race can I explain why a cultural anthropologist or a coroner can examine a bag of bones and with a 95% accuracy determine whether they are the bones of a Caucasian, Black, Asian, etc.?
For the obvious reason that we all have physical differences, despite being all human beings.
And that is high school stuff, tkenny.
I’m surprised you didn’t know any of that.
tkenny says
Paul, are you ok? We are truly worried. Your ignorance is starting to show and I know how proud of a man you are. Should I send Mike Kuzma up there ? Have him make you a cup of tea put a blanket around you. Must be getting cold up there. Maybe you are spending too much time on the internet.
I just want to make sure – you know this is the year 2017, right; and you are living in the good ole U. S. of A. right?
I’m sorry that I befuddled you with the bag of bones, anthropologist/coroner question. Your answer wouldn’t get you a passing grade in high school. Were you out smoking when they talked about this topic, huh? Yes, we are all humans but man it’s like …. magic that from a bag of bones they can tell what the color of someone’s skin is.
Hey Paul, hold on because I think I’m about to rock your world …. we could call people black, white or whatever or we could call them A, B and C. It doesn’t matter. Unless you can get everyone to wear the same color sheet to hide their skin color and you know why you need to do that? Do you? Hold on …. Implicit bias. Yes Paul in your world we are all humans ,there are no races, however we still have skin color. .. isn’t life a bitch!
Paul Plante says
It quite obviously is for you, tkenny, but my world is actually quite fine, so all your worry is misplaced, tkenny, and you would really do better to worry about yourself is my thought.
And you know what, tkenny, you are a pretty bright boy, knowing it is 2017, and not 1867.
And yes, times have changed.
Now, the Democrats have anarchists, communists and socialists as their paramilitary bully boys, as opposed to the White League and Red Shirts, but the purpose remains the same regardless of the name change.
And you didn’t befuddle me with the bag of bones, anthropologist/coroner question.
All we have is your word on the subject, and not to rock your world for you, tkenny, but your word ain’t worth doodly-squat.
And you know what, tkenny, I don’t believe an anthropologist can tell anything about skin color from a bag of bones.
However, if you want to believe that, for whatever it might be worth, then my goodness, tkenny, you don’t need my permission, so be my guest and believe away.
And if it makes you feel good about yourself and all warm and squishy inside to think black people are a separate race from white people, why you just go ahead and entertain that belief, because it is an irrational belief, and therefore, there is no rational argument that can be put forth in here to dissuade you.
As to your “Your answer wouldn’t get you a passing grade in high school,” for your information, I have a masters degree in engineering, so obviously, to a sane and rational person, anyway, high school wasn’t much of a challenge, and in high school, tkenny, I was taught that all people regardless of skin color are ONE RACE, so I am not going to change my mind to satisfy some irrational benighted belief system from a bygone era and bygone century that you are mired in.
And why on earth, tkenny, would I want all people to be of or wear one skin color?
What kind of A-HOLE idea is that you are putting forth here, that now, to satisfy some frankly weird desire of yours, that everyone should be of one color?
How asinine.
I like the fact that there are so many different skin colors, to be truthful.
Can you imagine living in a world where everyone looked just like you?
And I bet you can and wish it were so.
As for me, I shall take the world as it is, with all the different skin colors, and be quite content about it.
Paul Plante says
For a sane and rational person, this should serve to put tkenny’s irrational theory of different colored people being different races in the trash bin of history where it belongs:
ABC NEWS
“Anthropologists Disagree About Race and Bones”
By HREF, MAIL TO, WILLOW.LAWSON, ABCNEWS.COM and WILLOW LAWSON
Oct. 6
When an ancient skeleton was unearthed in the Pacific Northwest four years ago, some anthropologists said the skull didn’t resemble modern American Indians, spurring speculation that Indians weren’t the only, or even the first, people to arrive in the Americas.
The 9,000-year-old skeleton, now known as Kennewick Man, died when he was 45-50 years old, according to a government study.
His pelvis had grown over a 2-inch-long stone point embedded in his hip, perhaps giving him a limp.
He also had suffered injuries to his skull and left arm, as well as broken ribs many years before he died.
Scientists also took a close look at Kennewick Man’s face.
Some said the bones looked Asian.
Others said they were Caucasian, or even Neanderthal.
But just how much can the framework of the body tell about the person who lived inside of it?
Ancient Remains at Stake
That question now holds particular consequence after a lengthy custody battle between scientists and Indian tribes over the skeleton.
The tribes, lead by the Umatilla, claimed the Kennewick Man as an ancestor.
They recently won that battle in a ruling by the Department of the Interior under a federal law that gives Indian tribes the right to claim all pre-European human remains if they are able establish cultural affiliation.
Bruce Babbit, the Secretary of the Interior, said two years of study by his department persuaded him that the bones should be returned to tribes, who have said they’ll rebury the bones.
But a lawsuit filed by eight anthropologists for the right to study the remains is pending against the federal government.
Scientists have studied the biological concept of race for centuries, most infamously to find differences of intelligence or character they thought corresponded with skin color.
Although such theories have since been disproved and exposed past European scientists’ feelings of superiority, today’s anthropologists still closely analyze skeletons for the tiny differences — mainly in the skull and femur bones — to detect where a person’s ancestors came from.
Forensic anthropologists, experts in skeletons that do work for law enforcement agencies, say they are extremely accurate at deciphering the signs that identify a dead person’s bones as African, Caucasian, Asian or American Indian.
“We produce as much accuracy in race as we do with sex and age,” says George W. Gill, a forensic anthropologist at the University of Wyoming and one of the eight anthropologists who are suing the federal government in the Kennewick case.
Distinguishing Characteristics
Gill is one of about 60 certified forensic anthropologists in the U.S. and Canada to assist in the detection of crime through evidence found on human bodies.
He is also an expert in assessing race from skeletons.
His methods for combining several skeletal traits to evaluate ancestry are widely used in the field of forensic anthropology.
Using measuring tools called calipers — with adjustable pieces that slide or spread apart to measure length or thickness — forensic anthropologists take hundreds of measurements from a skeleton to assess race.
The measurements include length, width and projection of the nasal bones, the form of the chin, the shape of the skull and brow and the way bones have fused together, among dozens of others.
These measurements are compared to the indexes made from thousands of measurements of major population groups, which can tell scientists generally where a person’s ancestors came from.
Race Isn’t Real?
But some scientists say bone measurements can’t determine race because race, to begin with, isn’t real.
Norman Sauer, a professor at Michigan State University and a colleague of Gill’s recognizes that different physical characteristics in humans corresponds to where they or their ancestors came from.
But he doesn’t buy the concept of race, which he characterizes as a false method of categorizing humans.
He says this is a difficult concept for people to grasp.
“You might ask, if races don’t exist, than why are forensic anthropologists so good at identifying them?” says Sauer.
That’s because, he says, humans have invented race and it has endured as a concept in society, but can not be defined biologically.
Sauer believes traits that show how a person is related to a larger population group are not the same as race, which he says is a system of classification that has no sharp, defining lines.
Instead, he says, human differences should be seen as a continuum with gradual change, rather than a few distinct groups.
“If you were to walk from Europe to Africa, where do you put the line?” asks Sauer.
“All of the change is gradual.”
“The lines are historical and political.”
“It’s in people’s minds.”
Recent genetic evidence seems to bolster Sauer’s claim that race is all in the mind.
Scientists involved in the sequencing of the human genome say they think their work will prove that race can’t be seen in our genes.
“What we’ve shown is the concept of race has no scientific basis,” Craig Venter, the head of Celera Genomics, said in June.
Celera announced the near completion of the sequencing of the human genome this summer, along with the publicly-funded Human Genome Project.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98485&page=1
Jim Powell says
Wow. I haven’t seen this much activity since the cat got stuck in the trash compactor.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
UNESCO!!!!! BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh, Paul…………..you crack me up…………………
There is no such a thing as race………….Dear Lord………………..and using the freaking UN as your source…………..
Sickle cell anemia, a disease specific to a particular RACE begs to differ…………
Paul Plante says
Mike, if you want to believe that black people are a different race than white people, be my guest.
Except if they really were different races as you maintain, then how is it that they can breed and reproduce, a member of what you call the “white race” and a member of what you call the “black race?”
If they were different races, then they couldn’t mate and reproduce, but they do, Mike, so how does your scientific model account for that?
And UNESCO is only one source, Mike, I have cited several in here that all say RACE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION, which means if and when people like you want to have people be of different races, then in your head, that is what it will be, and there is no rational argument that anyone can put forth to dissuade you, since there is no rational way to deal with irrationality.
And in your system, Mike, are blacks the only separate race?
Or are Chinese people a different race, and Japanese another different race, and on and on and on ?
In your system, Mike, exactly how many different races are there then?
And when are you going to get that hacking cough of yours taken care of, Mike?
It sounds terrible.
It sounds like it could be TB or something like that, so you really ought to get it checked out, before it checks you out.
tkenny says
Gosh Paul you’re like a dog with a bone. Why don’t you drop the topic? You’re not getting anywhere.
“All we have is your word on the subject, and not to rock your world for you, tkenny, but your word ain’t worth doodly-squat.”
Wrong again, Paul. Don’t you hate that! Thanks to your link http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98485&page=1 George W. Gill, a forensic anthropologist at the University of Wyoming …He is also an expert in assessing race from skeletons. So Paul, I’m not an expert but he is and he says you can. Sorry about that
” I was taught that all people regardless of skin color are ONE RACE, ” Really Paul, then why is America the way it is now – if that was what was taught?? It’s been a long time since high school for you I think maybe you are looking back with rose colored glasses.
“And why on earth, tkenny, would I want all people to be of or wear one skin color?” If you didn’t understand that statement then you really don’t understand the whole race thing or prejudice in general.
And finally, (yes folks, (if others are reading) I know I over stayed my welcome. You truly won’t see any more from me under this topic.
Paul, you last comment -“this should serve to put tkenny’s irrational theory of different colored people being different races in the trash bin of history where it belongs:” Did ya forget something??? Why didn’t you copy and paste the last paragraph to your link????
Populating the Americas
Gill agrees that racial differences are fluid, but he says that doesn’t mean the differences don’t having meaning for scientists.
Gill says the reason for the shift in thought about race is that anthropologists, especially cultural anthropologists are uncomfortable about acknowledging racial differences because it might be seen as implying a kind of hierarchy.
“I wish we could move on beyond [terms like Caucasoid] and use new terminology that reflects the complexity of the field,” says Gill.
So Paul ,you hoping on the politically correct bandwagon? LOL I don’t see race as a bad thing. You have some hangup with it. Haters are gonna hate no matter what you want to call it. We are all humans sure lets go with that but those lazy no good dark, kinky haired people are the problem. See Paul, see what I did there? How bout we are all human but those dark colored skin people are SOBs.
So Paul ,to wrap this all up Chas was taking about some humans who decided to kneel for the National Anthem, hoping to draw attention and have a conversation about why so many are feeling disenfranchised. I think it’s safe to say those kneeling aren’t feeling disenfranchised.but they are willing to take the abuse from people like you who just don’t get it.
Paul Plante says
Oh, but I do get it, tkenny, and by the way, I happen to have three nephews and a niece who are “black” (oh, the scandal) and none of them are, as you put it, “those lazy no good dark, kinky haired people.”
They happen to be very intelligent, well behaved and well-brought-up people, two with a college education and one in college now, thanks to their mother, who raised them to be functioning members of a multi-ethnic society comprised of people with all kinds of skin color, all of whom are human beings like them.
So yes, tkenny, I did see what you did there – you revealed your inner feeling, your implicit bias, by blurting out in a Freudian slip that dark colored skin people are SOBs.
My nephews and niece are certainly not SOBs and tkenny, I truly feel sorry for you that you feel that way.
But hey, that is enough about you, and getting back on topic, what I do get, tkenny, is that, not surprisingly, the National Football League and its players who “take the knee” want to coddle criminals in this country, which is what this “taking of the knee” crap is really all about.
Until criminals in this country get better treatment, these football players are going to continue their “protest” of how unfair criminals in this country are treated.
And how do I know that?
Why, it would be from an ASSOCIATED PRESS article entitled “Goodell, union, players to meet on social issues and anthem” by BARRY WILNER, AP Pro Football Writer, 16 OCTOBER 2016, where we were informed as follows:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, owners of each team, representatives of the players’ union and players themselves will meet Tuesday to discuss ways to “move from protest to progress.”
Among the topics will be enhancing their platforms for speaking out on social issues, and the league’s policy that suggests but does not mandate players standing for the national anthem.
“We are proud to be able to work with our players to highlight these issues to really put focus on the issues and how the game and the NFL and our players bring communities together when we are divided,” NFL spokesman Joe Lockhart said.
The league also will be supporting a bipartisan legislative bill in Congress that seeks reforms and targets enhanced mandatory minimums for prior drug felons; increases judicial discretion for sentencing; and reforms enhanced mandatory minimums and sentences.
“We felt that this was an issue over the last months as we have continued to work with our players on issues of equality and on issues of criminal justice reform that was surfaced for us,” Lockhart said.
“And we thought it was appropriate to lend our support to it.”
end quotes
Not surprisingly, the National Football League, which itself promotes violence, is more concerned for the well-being of the violent drug gangs that are terrorizing our communities than they are for the victims of those violent drug gangs.
So now, thanks to you, tkenny, and our dear friend and colleague in here, Mr. Chas Cornweller, I do have a much better handle on what these football protests are really all about, which is protecting criminals from the law.
That really is a very important social issue, isn’t it, tkenny, protecting criminals from the law, as opposed to protecting their victims from the criminals.
Another thing I get is just how stupid and ignorant these football players and in the case of the Jacksonville Jaguars, their owner, Shahid Khan a Pakistani-American billionaire and business tycoon who as of August 2017 had a net worth is over $8.7 billion which ranked him 70th in the Forbes 400 list of richest Americans, while he is overall the 158th wealthiest person in the world, really are.
And that knowledge comes from the ASSOCIATED PRESS article “Jaguars apologize to local military for anthem demonstration” by MARK LONG, 17 OCTOBER 2017, wherein we in America and the world were informed as follows:
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) The Jacksonville Jaguars have apologized to military leaders for demonstrating during the national anthem in London last month.
Jaguars President Mark Lamping sent a letter to the director of military affairs and veterans in Jacksonville saying the team was ”remiss in not fully comprehending the effect of the national anthem demonstration on foreign soil has had on the men and women who have or continue to serve out country.”
end quotes
My goodness, how shortsighted and ignorant of them, tkenny.
Getting back to the article:
The letter was forwarded to Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry on Monday and available via his public email.
Most of the Jaguars, including owner Shad Khan, locked arms during the anthem on Sept. 24.
About a dozen players took a knee during the playing of ”The Star-Spangled Banner” at Wembley Stadium.
”This was an oversight and certainly not intended to send a message that would disparage you, our flag or our nation,” Lamping wrote to Bill Spann, director of Jacksonville’s military affairs and veterans department.
end quotes
An oversight, tkenny?
How about just plain ignorance coupled with hide-bound stupidity?
And again back to the article:
Lamping’s letter was dated Oct. 6 and it is unclear why it was forwarded to the mayor on Monday.
Lamping wrote it on behalf of Khan and Tom Coughlin, the team’s executive vice president of football operations.
”The notion never entered the minds of our players or anyone affiliated with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but today we can understand how the events in London on September 24 could have been viewed or misinterpreted,” Lamping wrote.
”We owe you an apology and hope you will accept it.”
end quote
How, tkenny, can supposed grown-ups in the country be so stupid?
Were they intentionally brought up that way, do you think?
And again, back to the article:
The day after the game in London, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry called it stupid not to stand for the anthem even though such acts are protected by the U.S. Constitution.
”I stand and cover my heart for the pledge and the anthem,” Curry said in a statement.
”I think it’s stupid to do otherwise.”
“The U.S. Constitution protects the right for a lot of people to do a lot of stupid things.”
end quotes
And tkenny, that is what I get, as well, that the U.S. Constitution protects the right for a lot of people to do a lot of stupid things, thanks to both you and our dear friend and colleague Mr. Chas Cornweller, so on behalf of a grateful nation and the candid world, as well, we would like to thank you both for lifting the veil of ignorance from our eyes.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Tkenny, ya gotta watch out for Plante….only HE is allowed to make hypothetical analogies, not we mere peons, lacking his erudition.
See, most of us knew what you meant by the kinky haired comment, but noooooooooo, Paul is gonna take that as serious as death but for me to abjure his 9/11 conpsiracism vis-a-vis my neighbor’s co-piloting plane 2, welllllllll, that’s just not done.
And Paul? My comment above was meant to mock you, not engage you.
Paul Plante says
You know, tkenny, your slurs about black people being SOBs and your stereotype of black people being “lazy no good dark, kinky haired people” makes you out in the eyes of the public as a real despicable character in here with a serious psychological problem where you need to invent racial categories so you would have someone to feel superior to, that being those lazy no good dark, kinky haired people as you call the black folk in this country you feel superior to.
Why, tkenny?
Why do you want people to think of you as a despicable character?
Help us see the light here, tkenny.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Once again, Paul it is your intentional conflation of what Tkenny ACTUALLY said that is driving the incorrect impression you continue to foist upon Tkenny.
But you know that, doncha?
Paul Plante says
tkenny, dude, the other label people are placing on you as a result of your slurs about black people being SOBs and your stereotype of black people being “lazy no good dark, kinky haired people” is vile, as in “that vile man,” where vile is defined as “extremely unpleasant,” with such synonyms as foul, nasty, unpleasant, bad, disagreeable, horrid, horrible, dreadful, abominable, atrocious, offensive, obnoxious, odious, unsavory, repulsive, disgusting, distasteful, loathsome, hateful, nauseating, sickening, disgraceful, appalling, shocking, sorry, shabby, shameful, dishonorable, execrable, heinous, abhorrent, deplorable, monstrous, wicked, evil, iniquitous, nefarious, depraved, debased; as well as contemptible, despicable, reprehensible, and morally bad or wicked.
Just thought you would want to know so you can change their minds if that is some kind of misapprehension on their part, such as if you were only portraying a despicable and vile person, so everyone could experience one to see what vile and despicable are really all about, as opposed to you actually being one yourself.
And tkenny, you really miss the boat with your comment about black people being “lazy no good dark, kinky haired people.”
Not all black people have kinky hair, tkenny, and while there may be some black people who are lazy and no good, there are many black people who are very productive members of our multi-ethnic society who do their part to keep this country running on an even keel.
So perhaps an apology to all those black people you have insulted with your slurs and stereotyping is in order here.
But of course, that is entirely up to you, as this is a free country and the Constitution gives you as much right to insult black people as it does to these football players taking the knee until all the criminals in this country get the coddling the National Football League wants for them and mobs in Ferguson, Missouri to loot, burn, smash and destroy the property of others in the name of civil disobedience because the law would not give them the lynching of a police officer they desired, so if you don’t want to apologize, the Constitution will protect you in that regard.
See what a wonderful country you live in, tkenny, and don’t forget, it is black people in our military who keep it that way for you, so you can be free to insult them in return.
God bless America!
tkenny says
Paul, looks like you just reached internet troll status. Congrats
Paul Plante says
tkenny, dude, what it is?
Sssssss’up, dude?
And while we have you on the line here, so to speak, tkenny, and I know I am probably talking to a wall here, but the fact that your hero George W. Gill, a forensic anthropologist at the University of Wyoming, who you call an expert in assessing race from skeletons, even though you are not, and so, have no basis to form a rational judgment, other than the dude’s word for it, says he can tell someone’s skin color from a bag of bones don’t mean doodly-squat to me.
There are a lot of so-called “experts” out there making all kinds of claims, and who is going to prove them wrong, and in what venue, other than the internet, as we are doing in here?
So he believes he can tell someone’s skin color from a bag bones?
So what?
Big deal?
Does that make it so because he believes he can?
Which brings to mind a dude back when who took some LSD and became convinced that he was a bird, and that therefore he could fly, and his belief that he was a bird that could fly got him to the roof of a big building where he put his belief to the test, and yes, for a time, he did fly, on a parabolic arc downwards, where if I recall he went SPLAT on the hood of some poor woman’s car while she was sitting in it, so, so much for people’s belief that they are something, like an expert on anything.
I am an engineer who has debunked a lot of experts, tkenny, being one myself, so I am not impressed or enamoured of people who go around calling themselves experts.
Why is America the way it is now?
Because it has become a very whacked-out and *****-up country, tkenny, without values where anything goes, look at Hussein Obama for proof of that, with his coke sniffing and pot smoking while a high school student; a country with an opioid and heroin epidemic going on, and an educational system that produces blithering idiots who think the rug–chewing madman Adolph Hitler and the SS are something to adore, is why.
America has become an open-air insane asylum where the insane are just as equal as everyone else, such is today’s late stage democracy.
As to your comment “It’s been a long time since high school for you I think maybe you are looking back with rose colored glasses,” that’s horse ****, tkenny
In the Soldier’s Handbook that I and every other American entering the United States Army in 1968 were issued, at page 2, it states as follows:
As you look around you will not find a “typical American soldier” in height, weight, color of eyes and hair, family origin, education, wealth, intelligence or similar characteristics.
The soldiers you have met and will meet are from all walks of life and all parts of our country.
But all of you have two things in common.
First, you are all serving the United States of America and believe in the principles that make it a free country.
This not only gives you a common bond with your fellow soldiers but also guarantees you the same chances as the next man to get ahead.
end quotes
Where is there anything about race in that, tkenny, which is consistent with what I was taught in school?
And how old did you say you were in 1968?
Were you even alive?
And then we come to putting tkenny’s irrational theory of different colored people being different races in the trash bin of history where it belongs, and no, I didn’t forget anything.
To the contrary, I thought what I omitted to be irrelevant which it is, as we shall see from an analysis of it, since you have been kind enough to bring it to our attention:
Populating the Americas
Gill agrees that racial differences are fluid, but he says that doesn’t mean the differences don’t having meaning for scientists.
Gill says the reason for the shift in thought about race is that anthropologists, especially cultural anthropologists are uncomfortable about acknowledging racial differences because it might be seen as implying a kind of hierarchy.
“I wish we could move on beyond [terms like Caucasoid] and use new terminology that reflects the complexity of the field,” says Gill.
end quotes
What is that saying that changes anything, tkenny?
He obviously does not get the fact that race isn’t real, nor can he, after making all these claims that he can tell race from a bag of bones.
Having made the claims about bones telling a person’s race, which is his gig, something he gets paid for, the dude now has no choice but to continue to beat that dead horse til it is dead all over again, because bone measurements can’t determine race because race, to begin with, isn’t real.
Norman Sauer, a professor at Michigan State University and a colleague of Gill’s recognizes that different physical characteristics in humans corresponds to where they or their ancestors came from.
But he doesn’t buy the concept of race, which he characterizes as a false method of categorizing humans.
A FALSE METHOD of categorizing HUMANS, tkenny, is what you are telling me I have to buy into to be a friend of yours, as if I were some silly sap in from Hicksville of Podunk with hay in my ears, which I am not, so I am not falling for your scam.
If races don’t exist, than why are forensic anthropologists so good at identifying them?
Says Sauer, that’s because humans have invented race and it has endured as a concept in society, just as you are trying to keep it doing in here.
Recent genetic evidence seems to bolster Sauer’s claim that race is all in the mind, while thoroughly debunking you and this Gill dude.
Scientists involved in the sequencing of the human genome say they think their work will prove that race can’t be seen in our genes.
“What we’ve shown is the concept of race has no scientific basis,” Craig Venter, the head of Celera Genomics, said in June.
So say after me, tkenny – despite what tkenny thinks, the concept of race has no scientific basis!
And to close, tkenny, you are way off base and out in left field with your snide comment about me being an internet troll – not by a long shot, tkenny.
As Wikipedia tells us, the commonly accepted definition of an internet troll in the United States of America today is as follows:
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll’s amusement.
Quoting you calling black people SOB’s and “lazy no good dark, kinky haired people,” and asking you why you would want people to think of you as a despicable character, and suggesting to you that perhaps you owe an apology to all those black people you have insulted with your slurs and stereotyping is not sowing discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, nor is that an inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll’s amusement, given that it is you who I am quoting there.
To the contrary it is calling you out on the internet for making what I personally thought were vile and despicable comments about black people.
So what a lame attempt that was, tkenny, to draw attention away from your slurs and stereotypes about black people, is all I can say, besides you have yourself a wonderful day, tkenny.
tkenny says
Paul, you need a vacation from the internet. I promised everyone I was done, I’m truly sorry but this is like playing a friendly game of volleyball, you’re up front and the other team floats this soft, slow ball over the net. Before you can think, you are already touching back down to the ground after skying high to spike the ball on the other side of the net. Again, sorry to everyone other than Paul. Here we go…
So, your not an internet troll, eh? Thank you for doing most of the work for me.
“As Wikipedia tells us, the commonly accepted definition of an internet troll in the United States of America today is as follows:
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels (LIKE THERE IS NO RACE ONLY THE HUMAN RACE OR THERE ARE NO OPPRESSED PEOPLE IN THE USA OR THE SIX OTHER ARTICLES YOU DOMINATED WITH YOUR TILTED VIEWS THAT I DON”T FEEL LIKE SUMMARIZING) or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages (NOT SURE HOW WE GOT TO THIS FROM THE ORIGINAL TOPIC) in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,(LET’S SEE NOW… ME, MIKE K, CHAS, JANET. I’M SURE IF I SPENT SOME TIME I COULD COME UP WITH OTHER NAMES) often for the troll’s amusement.”
Paul, if you can’t recognize how you’re behaving then its time to seek some help, buddy. Go for long walks, while the weather is still nice, get the snow equipment ready for the winter. Turn off the internet for awhile. You’re anger is not allowing you to think clearly.
Paul Plante says
Above here, our dear friend and colleague tkenny asks this very important question, to wit:
Why is America the way it is now?
My immediate answer was because it has become a very whacked-out and *****-up country, without values where anything goes, look at Hussein Obama for proof of that, with his coke sniffing and pot smoking while a high school student; a country with an opioid and heroin epidemic going on, and an educational system that produces blithering idiots who think the rug–chewing madman Adolph Hitler and the SS are something to adore, is why.
America has become an open-air insane asylum where the insane are just as equal as everyone else, such is today’s late stage democracy.
end quotes
But that does not answer the WHY of why that would be.
Why are we devolving as a nation into third-world nation status?
One possible answer, of course, depending on one’s philosophical bent is “DETERMINISM,” which is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will.
Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.
That is the famous “clockwork” model of the universe, which starts with a clockmaker sometime in the past taking a bunch of gears and shafts and levers and cams and Geneva Stops and such and assembling them into a mechanical universe, wherein we all are simply parts of that machine, in which case, everything going on in America today and in the world, all the fires and violence and chaos and hurricanes and floods, were determined by the clockmaker long ago, and so, we are simply riders on the storm, with no way of changing our circumstances.
I personally don’t adhere to that system, but in fact, many do, especially because of that clause that because of determinism, individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.
Defense attorneys, the criminals they defend and protect, and corrupt politicians and judges, not surprisingly, love determinism for that reason.
And then, there is Mass Psychoses, or Mass hysteria, which Wikipedia tells us in sociology and psychology, mass hysteria (also known as collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior) is a phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear (memory acknowledgment), which I would say is exactly what we are experiencing today here in the once great but now rapidly declining United States of America.
So who stokes this fear, or is it spontaneous, as in the famous case Cat nuns in France in the Middle Ages, where a nun of a French convent inexplicably began to meow like a cat, shortly leading to the other nuns in the convent also meowing, so that eventually all the nuns would meow together for a certain period every day, leaving the surrounding community astonished, behavior which did not stop until the police threatened to whip the nuns, or the Dancing Plague of 1518, which was a case of dancing mania that occurred in Strasbourg, Alsace (then part of the Holy Roman Empire) in July 1518 where numerous people took to dancing for days without rest, and, over the period of about one month, some of the people died from heart attack, stroke, or exhaustion, or the Irish Fright of 1688, which took place in England and parts of Wales in December 1688 during the Glorious Revolution with false reports that Irish soldiers were burning and massacring English towns, which prompted a mass panic in at least nineteen counties, with thousands of people arming themselves and preparing to resist non-existent groups of marauding Irishmen?
Which takes us back to determinism, all over again.
As for me, who doesn’t believe in determinism, but does believe in mass psychoses or mass insanity, which is what we have in this country today, with morons and mental deficients and outright idiots, on all the loose, believing they are Nazis, or anarchists, or socialists or communists, I think this fear is stoked by scheming and conniving demagogues such as Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Marxist ideologue and Alinsky-ite “community organizer” Barack Hussein Obama who use fear to divide people for their own twisted and devious reasons.
Instead of our politics reflecting our values, whatever in fact they might be anymore, with Nazis and anarchists and socialists and communists all now running amuck on our streets, we’ve got politics infecting our communities.
Instead of looking for ways to work together and get things done in a practical way, we’ve got folks like Hillary Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama who are deliberately trying to make folks angry, to demonize folks who have different ideas to get their base all riled up because it provides for them a short-term tactical advantage, as can be clearly seen in the NEW YORK TIMES article “Obama Returns to Campaign Trail to Rally Black Voters” by Jonathan Martin and Alexander Burns, 19 October 2017, where we are informed as follows:
DUMFRIES, Va. — President Barack Obama will hit the campaign trail on Thursday for the first time since leaving office, trying to rally black voters behind candidates for governor in Virginia and New Jersey amid warnings that they may not come out in force on an Election Day that is just three weeks away.
Mr. Obama’s appearances on behalf of Virginia’s lieutenant governor, Ralph S. Northam, in Richmond and the financier Philip D. Murphy in Newark — two white candidates in predominantly black cities — come as Democrats struggle to inspire African-Americans to vote this year.
end quotes
Yes, divide the country up into black voters versus white voters, for short-term tactical advantage, something the Marxist ideologue Barack Hussein Obama is very adept at.
According to the New York Times, Phillip E. Thompson, the president of the N.A.A.C.P. in Virginia’s Loudoun County, said he was worried that black voters were simply not engaged.
“I’m just not getting the vibe on it,” he said.
“Not at all.”
“If the party doesn’t change what they’re doing, we’re not going to take back the House, we’ll lose seats in the Senate and folks will come around after and say, ‘What happened?’” warned Representative Cedric L. Richmond of Louisiana, chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus.
“We are doing a pathetic job of reaching out to minority voters.”
end quotes
Minority voters?
But silly me, I thought we were all American citizens.
And here is the difference between “democracy,” and a Republic.
In a true Republic, which is what we were guaranteed back in the beginning, there are no minorities, because all citizens are equal.
But then, what are the demagogues and manipulators and connivers and skulkers like Hillary Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama going to do, if everyone is in fact equal and there are no classes or minorities to political exploit, as the conniver Obama is attempting to do here with the “black voters” on the behalf of the Democrat party in America?
Getting back to the New York Times:
In both Alabama and Virginia, Democrats have tried to lay the groundwork for stronger black turnout in 2017 and midterms next year.
Officials with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee briefed party strategists this month on plans to conduct research in several states, including New Jersey and Virginia, to identify issues most likely to motivate minority voting in 2018.
In Virginia, Mr. Northam has targeted black voters in the final weeks of the race, frequenting black churches and campaigning with Eric H. Holder Jr., the former attorney general, in addition to Mr. Obama.
Mr. Northam seems well prepared to engage black residents.
He attended integrated schools as a child on Virginia’s eastern shore and often worships at a black church when back home.
He won African-American voters decisively in the Democratic primary this year, and has put opposition to Mr. Trump at the center of his message.
But Mr. Northam has also been uncertain about how to handle calls to remove Confederate statues in the state after the bloodshed in Charlottesville this summer, seemingly torn between not wanting to offend whites in this history-drenched state and not wanting to get crosswise with his African-American base.
After initially saying he would be “a vocal advocate” for taking down the monuments, Mr. Northam, facing an onslaught of ads from his Republican opponent over the issue, said last week that he was “not going to meddle” with localities over the issue.
And a growing chorus of black activists and strategists say the party’s church-focused appeals are not reaching younger African-Americans.
Instead, they say, Mr. Northam needs to talk directly about sensitive issues like policing and criminal justice for blacks under 40 to turn out.
“The racial issues besieging communities of color are now competing with and in many ways trumping conventional general election issues,” Cornell Belcher, a Democratic pollster who is black, wrote in a memo that was forwarded to The New York Times.
He surveyed Virginia voters of color last month and found lagging interest among African-Americans in the race for governor.
Mr. Holder said in an interview that Democrats had to balance their overtures to white voters who backed Mr. Trump with outreach to black voters.
“Certainly some attention needs to be focused there,” Mr. Holder said of Trump voters.
“But that doesn’t mean that you don’t also focus on issues of particular concern to African-Americans.”
end quotes
So, people, take your choice – determinism, mass psychoses, or just plain old garden variety American politics at work?
In the meantime, ponder the question of can a house so divided against itself as America has become today continue to stand?