Special Opinion by Paul Plante
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”
That was pampered and privileged and ignorant as a tree stump despite his college education at University of Nevada, Reno, San Francisco 49’s quarterback Colin Kapernick speaking in an interview after he refused to stand for the National Anthem before a preseason game in late August 2016, and so far as I can tell, that is where these NFL “protests” we are witnessing today began.
Said the ignorant Kapernick back then, “To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way,” adding that he would continue to sit during the National Anthem until seeing “significant change” for minorities.
“Significant change for minorities?”
Such as what, exactly?
Is he going to continue to sit until we finally have a black president in this country?
But wait, I thought Barack Obama who was president in 2016 was black, so what am I missing there, pray tell?
Or how about black Supreme Court justices or Latina Supreme Court justices?
Is he going to sit until we have some of them?
But my goodness, we already do, so what “significant change” for minorities is he looking for?
And people, since he is ignorant and inarticulate, despite his so-called college education on a football scholarship, he can’t tell us.
And where is it that he experienced this “oppression” in a country that he says oppresses people of color like him?
Go to Biography.com ( https://www.biography.com/people/colin-kaepernick-21132801 ) like I did to check my facts and you will see that Kapernick, who is so stupid he thinks the United States of America, which just had a black president, oppresses black people and people of color, and you will see that Kapernick lived a life of privilege from the time he was young, compared to people like me born into poverty he never knew at the end of WWII.
So what does he have to whine about then, besides absolutely nothing!
You would think the dude would be thankful for all that has been handed to him, but obviously not, for which I, a common American who worked to get out of poverty, have absolutely no respect for him whatsoever, and I certainly am not going to “celebrate” him as the self-professed liberals in this country want us to do.
But let us go back to his statement for a moment and parse it word for word: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”
Is that what we do when we stand for the Star Spangled Banner – show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color?
Or are we standing to show our respect for our unique heritage as a nation where people of all colors and ethnicities and creeds and beliefs can be free to be all that they are capable of being?
As one of this nation’s many disabled veterans, I say it is the latter, and I base that on many things, starting with my education as an American citizen in this nation after WWII, when the flag Colin Kapernick won’t show pride in, because he is too stupid to know the difference, had just defeated the forces of fascism which had engulfed Europe and the Japanese imperialism which had enslaved the nations of the Pacific region.
“I pledge allegiance to the FLAG of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands.”
“My country, tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.”
It is that “sweet land of liberty” that put Barack Hussein Obama in the White House, and it is that same “sweet land of liberty” that gave Colin Kapernick the privileged life he led, without having to do anything for the nation in return except insult all of the American people of all colors and ethnicities who made it possible for him to be the high-paid, dog-stupid, disrespectful lout that he is.
In the Soldier’s Handbook that I and every other American entering the United States Army in 1968 were issued, at page 2, it states as follows:
As you look around you will not find a “typical American soldier” in height, weight, color of eyes and hair, family origin, education, wealth, intelligence or similar characteristics.
The soldiers you have met and will meet are from all walks of life and all parts of our country.
But all of you have two things in common.
First, you are all serving the United States of America and believe in the principles that make it a free country.
This not only gives you a common bond with your fellow soldiers but also guarantees you the same chances as the next man to get ahead.
End quotes
And such it was – be all that you can be, regardless of skin color.
Look in the “yearbook” for my group, of basic trainees, and you will see in there many black drill sergeants, and later in Viet Nam, my battalion commander, a lieutenant colonel, was a black man, as was my first sergeant.
And that was in 1968 and 1969.
So where is this “country that oppresses black people and people of color” that the stupid and ignorant and uneducated despite his college degree Colin Kapernick was whining and mewling about in 2016, when he refused to stand for the Star Spangled Banner?
My answer as an American citizen is “not here.”
tkenny says
Boy, you are such an ignoramus. The Bill of Rights, the document you quote so often gives him the right to protest. You know, this:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances
I was unable to find the footnote that said …except during the National Anthem. You can’t have it both ways. You might not like it but he and others have the right to do what they are doing .
Also, I hate to mention this, actually I’m tickled pink t0o, Kapernick seems to be a bit better educated than you. “…who is so stupid he thinks the United States of America, which just had a black president, oppresses black people and people of color”
Let’s see, should the yardstick be : 1863 Blacks are freed from slavery or 1963, Blacks are given the right to vote. I’ll take 1863, so for 154 years there has been 1 black President and 2 Supreme Court Judges, I’d say there might be a little problem with minorities being able to participate on the same level as whites. Maybe there is a hint of oppression . How many black or minority Vice Presidents have we had? Secretary of State? 1990 was the first time a Black Governor was elected, in Virginia no less.
Blacks have been serving and honoring the Flag a lot longer than their right to vote but yet they are dis-proportionally represented why’s that?
Paul Plante says
tkenny, dude, always so nice to see you.
Have you been well, tkenny, is everything going alright for you?
People are wondering, because you seem to be more than slightly confused above here.
I never said Colin Kaepernick did not have the right to protest.
And of course the Bill of Rights gives Colin Kaepernick the right to come out in public and make an A-HOLE of himself in the national media as he has done with his football protest.
I never denied that, and in fact, tkenny, I fought and bled in Viet Nam as a member of this nation’s military to protect that same Bill of Rights so Colin Kaepernicjk can make as ass of himself with his football protests.
On that, we are in perfect agreement.
And tkenny, why do you go back in time to list off oppressions of black people that happened before the pampered and privileged Colin Kaepernick was even born.
Are you perhaps having some kind of word comprehension problems here, tkenny, because this is what Colin Kaepernick actually said: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”
Present tense, tkenny, not past tense.
He is saying that right then, in 2016, when a black man, Barack Hussein Obama, was president and another black man, Eric Himpton Holder, Jr. was United States Attorney General, that it was the “country,” which would have been Obama, and Holder, that was oppressing black people and people of color.
He wasn’t talking a hundred years ago like you are, as you go out of your way to dredge up things dead and gone to prove some point you are trying to make in here, but haven’t yet.
And I am questioning his assertions, which is my right to do according to the same Bill of Rights you say gives Colin Kaepernick his right to protest.
If he has a right to protest, tkenny, then so do I, and I am using my right to protest to protest the gross ignorance Colin Kaepernick is demonstrating, along with his fostering of disloyalty to OUR nation and disrespect for all of those who have fought and died to give Colin Kaepernick the privileged, cushy, protected life he has led up to the present moment.
See what I am saying here, tkenny?
See how utterly confused you were?
And tkenny, dude, have a real nice day, and sleep sound tonight knowing that real loyal America people who do salute the flag and who do stand when the Star Spangled Banner is played are out there in the night keeping you safe in your bed from the things that go bump in the night.
Think to yourself about the day they might not be there because people like you who have contempt for the nation you live in and those who defend it are no longer worth defending, as you continue to praise these football protests and those who take part in them and encourage others like you to do so as well.
tkenny says
Paul, your condescending attitude is not appreciated. You want to argue the points then argue the points.
Paul Plante says
You made no points to argue, tkenny, or I would have done so.
As to Colin Kaepernick, I did indeed argue the points, but you never responded to them, likely because you can’t.
As to “condescending” attitudes and snide, insulting remarks, how about this from you above here: “Boy, you are such an ignoramus.”
I would suggest that when you made that condescending comment, you were looking at yourself in the mirror.
Now, tkenny, do us all a favor and this time, instead of emoting, why don’t you actually read what I wrote and comment substantively on what is written in there instead of feeding us a bunch of meaningless drivel about how bad people of color were treated in this country before you were even born.
You should read some American history, and you will find that many ethnicities, such as the Irish and Italians and Chinese, were treated quite poorly, as well, as were the French and Catholics.
And that bad treatment was by Anglo-Saxon protestants, while the bad treatment of the black folks in the south after the Civil War was by the Democrat party itself.
Educate yourself here, tkenny, instead of feeding us your emotional drivel.
Google “American Protective Association,” and you will find thusly:
The American Protective Association (APA) was an American anti-Catholic secret society established in 1887 by Protestants, especially Irish Protestants from Canada.
end quotes
So the black folks in this country don’t have a monopoly on being ill-treated, so let us act as mature adults and stop coddling them and pretending that they alone are the only people in this country who have been ill-treated, because that is just so juvenile a thing to do.
Antonio Sacco says
The contempt for not to honor our national anthem and the American flag is born from the Hillary machine for her run again for the President in 2020, she wants to divide our country to make that happen.
The majority of the Black people are law-abiding it’s there leaders like Sharpton that are twisting their minds to think otherwise.
My Mother a Hispanic taught me right from wrong and to respect the law of the land. One day I was accused by the police for opening a fire hydrant and told to go home, “I had nothing to do with it” I answered, he then kicked me in the ass. I told my Mother and she said I deserved it for my disrespect for the Police. That incident carried me thru life to this day, when a law enforcement stops me, I immediately keep my mouth shut and answer him politely, he gives me the summons an pay the fine, case closed.
When the nuclear family is broken so goes the values of humanity, the Roman Empire was built on just that one principal and without that nations will crumble. I’m one to believe that is what is to happen to my country when a family has no father to hold it together.
Am I to believe that at 17 years old I fought for my country in World War 2 for nothing to see certain Americans disrespect our Grand Flag and Anthem (for which it stands liberty and justice for all), sending a message to our youngsters of a divided country we live in, that I’m afraid will continue to decline our country if we do not restore “Law and Order”.
Hillary wants to destroy our constitution and replace it with Socialism and that will fail, what I see happening in this country is Nationalism and I’m afraid it will lead to Dictatorship like what happened after World War 1–take notice of the recent German vote where some 15% voted Neo-Nazi, and it’s spreading around the world again, I hope I’m wrong, I don’t want democracy to fail, but the NFL is doing just that.
,
Antonio Sacco, Capeville, Va. says
This contempt not to honor our national anthem and stars and strips is born from the Hillary and Soros machine and her run again in 2020, both want to divide our country to make it successful.
The majority of the Black people are law-abiding it’s their leaders like Sharpton and others that are twisting their minds to think otherwise.
My Mother, a Hispanic taught me right from wrong to respect the law of the land. One day I was accused by the Police for opening a fire hydrant and ordered to go home, “I had nothing to do with it” I answered, the Police kicked me in the ass and told me to get. Crying all the way home to my Mother and told her what happened she told me I deserved it for my disrespect for the Police Officer. That incident carried me thru life when a law enforcement stops me I immediately keep my mouth shut and answer him politely, he hands me a summons and I pay the fine, case closed.
When the nuclear family is broken so goes the values of humanity, the Roman Empire was built on just that one principal and without that Nations will crumble and I am one to believe that is to happen to my county the USA when a family has no father to hold it together.
Am I to understand at 17 years old I fought for my country in World War 2 for nothing only to see certain Americans disrespect our Grand American Flag and our National Anthem that stand for liberty and the justice for all that sends a message to our youngsters of a divided country if we do not restore “Law and Order”
Hillary and Soros want to destroy our constitution and replace it with a doctrine of Socialism that eventually will fail as witnessed in Greece and Spain. What I am starting to see is that Nationalism is starting to spread around the world and what follows is Dictatorship the likes of which happened after World War 1. In a recent German vote was taken for Chancellor, some 15 % voted Neo-Nazi, that’s scary. and it’s spreading around the world again, I hope I’m wrong, I just don’t want Democracy to fail here, but the NFL is doing just that.
Chas Cornweller says
This back and forth is getting beyond tiresome. I cannot begin to count the number of people who have totally and completely missed the point of the “Taking of the Knee” during our National Anthem. Maybe a re-visitation to the 1968 Mexican Summer Olympics is in order for some. But, I imagine the same enraged vexation that was caused when two athletes raised their fists as protest (while standing on the winner’s podiums) would not be cited as the same today. After all, people of color (a very few…not all!) were burning their own cities, forming community groups such as the Black Panthers and political groups such as CORE and SNCC. You know, being all uppity and demanding equal rights in a country that had practiced unequal housing, employment, wages and political access, yet by its very Constitutional bylaws ensured such rights to all free men. So, you still wonder why African Americans are upset?
As to Paul’s point…why are they so angry today? Why are so many STILL feeling disenfranchised? You see, this is the point you fail to see. Only the list is longer and many more colors have been added to that list. Equal employment for a living wage? As any West Virginian, how that’s working out. Equal pay for equal work. Ask any female how that’s working out. Gun violence in our inner cities, black on black crime and murders. Ask any inner-city person of ANY color, just how is that working out. Fair and equable treatment of the poor, disenfranchised, person of color by our judicial system…yeah, just ask. Anyone. Police protection? Well, we’ve seen what the statistics are when it comes to cops shooting citizens, versus the other way around. Prosecution rate? Yeah. I thought so.
Paul, I understand you are a patriot. We ALL get that. But, there are some seriously wrong things here. Has been for a long, long time. I cannot remember a time in my lifetime that someone, somewhere hasn’t spit out the N-word in a conversation like they were talking about vermin. The latest take on racial prejudices has been brought to the fore by the present occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue through his rhetoric of building walls to keep out People of Color. Travel bans on certain countries to keep out People of Color. Aside comments and outright lies to demean and demonize a certain past President of Color. These racial divide issues and xenophobia actions have been in the pipeline for a long, long time now. Stirred up by the disciples of the Tea Party and the Right Winged faction of the Republican Political Party. It continues even as you read these. Take a knee? Hell, I WISH it were that simple. What you forget, we ALL forget…Protest is the LAST bastion of conversation before the fighting begins. It is EVERY American’s right to protest. This protest is NOT about your precious time in the jungles of Nam. It is NOT about Old Glory. It is NOT about the sanctity and tradition of America and her freedom. It is about yours and mine attitudes and our daily walk among our fellow citizens and how we treat those who work, live and play alongside us, while looking, believing, and living differently than us. It is compassion for our fellow brother/sister and finding within ourselves what is truly so wrong, that someone has to make us angry to see it. Taking a knee is telling America, us and the world, something is seriously wrong here. Plain and simple. Those that refuse to see it…are part of what is seriously wrong.
Antonio Sacco, Capeville, Va. says
there is Black Power, is there White Power???????
Paul Plante says
I was just in the VA hospital, Chas Cornweller, seriously ill.
Do you know whose hands my life was in, Chas Cornweller, while I was in there trying to recover?
People of a whole bunch of different skin colors, Chas Cornweller, and to me, they were all human beings, just as I was just another human being to them.
And none of those people were there protesting the treatment black people and people of color get in this country.
To the contrary, Chas Cornweller, they were their doing their jobs in a professional manner, because that is what they are, professionals, and let me tell you, Chas Cornweller, they were some mighty fine and mighty nice people, and I was very thankful I had them for caregivers.
And there are millions of those people with black skin and people of color who each day get up and go to work among people of different skin colors, without thinking anything about this “oh, I’m white and you’re black” bull**** you seem to be obsessed with.
You, on the other hand, scour around all over the place to find stories of people you think are oppressed, and you negate the existence of all the black people and people of color there are in this country who have no problems co-existing with people of other skin tones to make your points.
So be it, Chas Cornweller, I’m staying over on the positive side.
Chas Cornweller says
I appreciate the fact that you were in hospital, Paul. I pray your speedy recovery. And no, I am not obsessed with finding fault with relations between the skin colors (as you aptly coined it). But, I am not diametrically opposed to calling out a racist when I see one. You, sir, are NOT a racist. But, racism does exist. Do we not agree? And frankly, I work every day with people of different colors, creeds, backgrounds and genders and get this…classes and education levels. This is normal for me. I love who I work with. But, I was raised in the South and I saw the so-called “Color Bar” in action (I am in my sixties – so I was around for America’s Apartheid). I am still a “bit” sensitive to oppression.
And Paul, trust me, I do not have to “scour” too deeply to come up with present day situations of oppressions and impressions and depressions. I can kick over any rock and see it manifest daily. So, I can appreciate your “Positivity”. I honestly do. But, realistically…we (ALL God’s Creatures) have a long way to go before we reach the promised land. And I apologize here and now for being a “downer”.
Again, take care, I wish you nothing but good health. Chas.
Paul Plante says
And what is this hyperbole of yours, Chas Cornweller, above here where you state “This protest is NOT about your precious time in the jungles of Nam,” where hyperbole, a noun, is defined as exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
What “precious” time in the jungles of Nam, Chas Cornweller?
What on earth do you see as being “precious” about any of that?
What kind of math do you use to come to that conclusion that there was anything at all “precious” about any of that?
I was an AMERICAN CITIZEN, Chas Cornweller, just like you, just like Colin Cornweller, just like these football players “taking the knee,” and just like all of these “people of color” born in this country, and I perceived that as an AMERICAN CITIZEN, I had a duty to MY NATION and its people, people like you and these pampered and overpaid football players, to stand up and defend it.
So where does “precious” enter into the equation, especially as there was nothing at all “precious” about it.
And why did I perceive I had a duty to this nation and its people, Chas Cornweller, regardless of what skin color they had been issued at birth?
And it was because of my teaching as an AMERICAN CITIZEN as to what citizen duties happen to be for each and every AMERICAN CITIZEN regardless of skin color.
A house divided against itself cannot stand, and this Democrat slogan “Our Diversity is our strength” is pure bull****.
Diversity is diversity.
Diversity is division, which is what we are seeing all around us today, as these football player “take the knee,” which is a statement that they belong to a different nation and society to the one I am part of.
So pardon me if I view that as sedition, Chas Cornweller, defined herein as conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state.
And who is the flag, Chas Cornweller?
Do you know?
Were you ever taught its meaning?
The flag, Chas Cornweller, is every living American citizen, regardless of color or creed.
And did you know, Chas Cornweller, while you are on about how badly “people of color” of color are treated in this country that the most decorated unit in combat in WWII, when our FLAG was in Europe fighting fascism, was the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, an infantry regiment of the United States Army, which was a fighting unit composed almost entirely of American soldiers of Japanese ancestry (mostly from Hawaii) who fought in World War II?
Did you know that, Chas Cornweller?
Those were people of color and they went through a hell you and these protected football players will never have to know and they were fighting for the FLAG these football players **** on as not good enough for them.
And what does some black dudes in Mexico at the Olympics making the black power salute have to do with the Star Spangled Banner being played in this country?
The candid world would like to know and so would I.
Chas Cornweller says
Paul…why is it whenever I address you in a comment I get the feeling I am about to kick over a hornet’s nest? Please, you do not have to answer that. I am being melodramatic.
For every good turn (your positivity) I could find three bad instances of divide. But, let’s not belabor this issue. My point about the protest (whether in Mexico in 1968 or in Baltimore 2017 – don’t cha just LOVE progress?) is this…it is NOT about the flag. It is NOT about our forebears of freedom and America’s might in battle. It is NOT even about the Star-Spangled Banner itself (although it was once a drinking song when written in England!) It IS about society’s (some-not all-please don’t unleash the hornets) perception of Black Americans and the perception of their place in this vast DIVERSE melting pot we call America. All anybody wants is a fair shake. We ALL want justice. We ALL want a level playing field. We ALL want clean water, clean air and a peaceful living area free from brutality, fear and corruption.
And lastly, you are asking for my apology on my use of the word “Precious” to denote your time served in Vietnam. Well, I am civil human being and I offer my apology. Especially after seeing Ken Burn’s documentary on the war as presented through his lens. I cannot imagine a more nightmarish scenario for a nineteen year old to experience. So, I apologize for trivializing, being flippant about your service. You don’t deserve that. And… you don’t have to respond, I am being sincere. You see good. I see bad. Let’s agree to disagree. Maybe someday we will come to the middle and say…remember when.
Paul Plante says
“I am a poor, wayfaring stranger,” Chas Cornweller.
“Traveling through this world of woe!”
And yes, it is, Chas Cornweller, and it has been that way since the 1960s, or a goodly portion of your life, because of the “The Great Society,” which was a set of domestic programs in the United States launched by Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson in 1964–65, along with the Viet Nam war which was to divide America down the middle into the two warring camps we see flailing all about us as we have this chat in here today.
And Chas Cornweller, I don’t give a damn any more about these football protests, because I don’t watch football on TV and friends who did watch it called Dish Network and told them they didn’t want politics with their football, so Dish Network gave them a full refund, and that is the end of football for us, it’s no longer a topic of conversation, like something dirty or unsavory, so who kneels at a football game is no longer a matter I pay any attention to.
But getting back to the “Great Society” of Lyndon Baines Johnson, Chas Cornweller, I don’t know if you remember any of this, or were maybe never taught it, but the main goal of the “Great Society” was the elimination of poverty and racial injustice.
The elimination of poverty and racial injustice, Chas Cornweller.
That was 1964, now its 2017, and it seems we have poverty and racial injustice far beyond what we had back then, Chas Cornweller.
So what happened then?
Can you tell us?
Getting back to the “Great Society,” for I was alive back then and remember LBJ going on and on about “The Great Society,” President Johnson first used the term “Great Society” during a speech at Ohio University, then unveiled the program in greater detail at an appearance at University of Michigan.
New major spending programs that addressed education, medical care, urban problems, rural poverty, and transportation were launched during this period.
The program and its initiatives were subsequently promoted by him and fellow Democrats in Congress in the 1960s and years following.
The Great Society in scope and sweep resembled the New Deal domestic agenda of Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Johnson’s success depended on his skills of persuasion, coupled with the Democratic landslide in the 1964 election that brought in many new liberals to Congress, making the House of Representatives in 1965 the most liberal House since 1938.
Anti-war Democrats complained that spending on the Vietnam War choked off the Great Society.
While some of the programs have been eliminated or had their funding reduced, many of them, including Medicare, Medicaid, the Older Americans Act and federal education funding, continue to the present.
The Great Society’s programs expanded under the administrations of Republican presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.
end quotes and thanks to Wikipedia for that information
So what happened, Chas Cornweller?
How come things are in such a mess now?
Paul Plante says
Chas Cornweller, why after all this time do you and I need a formal agreement between us to disagree?
We have been courteously disagreeing in here without rancor or the need to call each other names for quite some time now, so why not just continue the trend?
I don’t dislike you or hate you because you happen to live under a different sky than I do, so that your perception of the world is different than mine, so what’s the worry?
But with that said, Chas Cornweller, there are things you say here in this public forum, which is global, thanks to the internet, and some of those things I feel, as an AMERICAN citizen, need to be challenged and rebutted with logic and fact, such as your statement above “It IS about society’s (some-not all-please don’t unleash the hornets) perception of Black Americans and the perception of their place in this vast DIVERSE melting pot we call America.”
What about the perception of Black Americans as to their “place” in this vast DIVERSE melting pot we call America?
Maybe it is there that we ought to search for the roots of the problem here, because Chas Cornweller, the society that I’m associated with has no problem with black people, just as it has no problem with all the other types of people, far too numerous to name, who exist in this melting pot.
Have you ever heard the terms “Uncle Tom” and “Oreo cookie, black on the outside, but white on the inside?”
Who uses those terms as pejorative expressions, Chas Cornweller?
Do the Vietnamese or Koreans or Chinese or Thais or any other ethnicity use these terms derogatory terms against others of their own people, or is it only the black folks, Chas Cornweller, as they ostracize those of their community who dare to go out in SOCIETY and function as a productive member of it?
I had a black woman for a boss one time, by choice, as she was quite intelligent and wise, and she told me about growing up surrounded by black people in Barack Obama’s hometown of Chicago, Illinois, this at a time when the Black Panthers were quite active out there, and she told me that for her as a woman to be successful in her terms as a woman in cosmopolitan society, which is to say, a society composed of all kinds of people, not just black people, she had to get as far as she could from black people and their attitudes about women and black people who dare to go out among WHITEY, as she chose to do that “Uncle Tom” and “Oreo” crap that you seem blissfully unaware as you lay the blame for all the problems and troubles of the black folks on everybody but themselves.
Because black people do OPPRESS other black people who want to go out into WHITEY’s world and get a job and education to better themselves, Chas Cornweller, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not.
There is the OPPRESSION that you seem to be intentionally blind about, Chas Cornweller, as you place the blame for all the perceived problems of the black folks on everybody but themselves.
I had another black person as a boss, a very nice person who incidentally believed in this country as a member of its armed forces reserve, and he used to tell me how he was being attacked by his teenage son and the gang his son hung with for “selling out” the black folks by going out and working for WHITEY, notwithstanding that it was his paycheck that he got for working for WHITEY that put food on the son’s table and provided a roof over his head.
There is more OPPRESSION, Chas Cornweller.
And how about these black-only classical music festivals that bar white faces from attending?
Listen to the interviews of the participants as they say how nice it is to be somewhere where everyone looks just like them,
And listen to “From The Top,” Chas Cornweller, and you will hear young black people saying about how when they went to practice for a youth orchestra, they were the “only black face” in the room.
What is up with that, Chas Cornweller?
Why this obsession with “faces” in a room that black people seem to have, based on what they say in their own words??
Who else has that?
I know I don’t.
Do you?
Paul Plante says
And Chas Cornweller, with all due respect to you, sir, often when you address me in a comment, especially in this thread, you are kicking over a hornet’s nest.
Look at how you came in here, for example: This back and forth is getting beyond tiresome.
What I find to be exceedingly tiresome, Chas Cornweller, is living in a nation with an average IG trending somewhere around 15 now, down from 18 last week, where people who are supposed to be productive citizens know nothing whatsoever about what being a citizen of a Republic, not a democracy, requires of them, and yes, here I am including these football players who take the knee at these football games of theirs.
And then you continue as follows: “I cannot begin to count the number of people who have totally and completely missed the point of the ‘Taking of the Knee’ during our National Anthem.”
Oh, really?
Does that make you the only living person in America, then, who has not missed the point?
Might that be a statement made in a sense of superiority, and perhaps arrogance and self-righteousness, Chas Cornweller, or could it be interpreted that way by the reader?
As to the 1968 Mexican Summer Olympics, here is what Wikipedia says about that, and incidentally, I was in the Army when that happened, on my way to my precious time in the jungles of Nam, while you were a paperboy, so it is not surprising that we might see the event through different eyes:
The 1968 Olympics Black Power salute was a political demonstration conducted by African-American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos during their medal ceremony at the 1968 Summer Olympics in the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City.
end quotes
Black power, salutes, Chas Cornweller.
Do you remember what those meant?
Getting back to Wikipedia, after having won gold and bronze medals, respectively, in the 200-meter running event, they turned on the podium to face their flags, and to hear the American national anthem, “The Star-Spangled Banner”.
Each athlete raised a black-gloved fist, and kept them raised until the anthem had finished.
The event is regarded as one of the most overtly political statements in the history of the modern Olympic Games.
end quotes
What, Chas Cornweller, are overt political statements doing in the Olympics, which are supposed to bring people together, as football is said to do, but doesn’t?
Wikipedia continues as follows:
On the morning of 16 October 1968, US athlete Tommie Smith won the 200 meter race with a world-record time of 19.83 seconds, Australia’s Peter Norman finished second with a time of 20.06 seconds, and the US’s John Carlos won third place with a time of 20.10 seconds.
After the race was completed, the three went to the podium for their medals to be presented by David Cecil, 6th Marquess of Exeter.
The two US athletes received their medals shoeless, but wearing black socks, to represent black poverty while Smith wore a black scarf around his neck to represent black pride.
Carlos had his tracksuit top unzipped to show solidarity with all blue-collar workers in the US and wore a necklace of beads which he described “were for those individuals that were lynched, or killed and that no-one said a prayer for, that were hung and tarred.”
“It was for those thrown off the side of the boats in the Middle Passage.”
Sociologist Harry Edwards, the founder of the OPHR, had urged black athletes to boycott the games; reportedly, the actions of Smith and Carlos on 16 October 1968 were inspired by Edwards’s arguments.
Both US athletes intended to bring black gloves to the event, but Carlos forgot his, leaving them in the Olympic Village.
It was Peter Norman who suggested Carlos wear Smith’s left-handed glove.
For this reason, Carlos raised his left hand as opposed to his right, differing from the traditional Black Power salute.
When The Star-Spangled Banner played, Smith and Carlos delivered the salute with heads bowed, a gesture which became front page news around the world.
As they left the podium they were booed by the crowd.
Smith later said, “If I win, I am American, not a black American.”
“But if I did something bad, then they would say I am a Negro.”
“We are black and we are proud of being black.”
“Black America will understand what we did tonight.”
Tommie Smith stated in later years that “We were concerned about the lack of black assistant coaches.”
“About how Muhammad Ali got stripped of his title.”
“About the lack of access to good housing and our kids not being able to attend the top colleges.”
end quote
Black America, Chas Cornweller, pray tell, where is it?
It is a different country, isn’t it, from our America, or at least my America, an America where everyone regardless of skin color is equal, as opposed to black America, where everyone is decidedly not equal, and black people, who want to be totally segregated from white people and all other people, for that matter, aren’t Americans like you and I are, or at least as I am, because I am not sure that you and I are even the same kind of Americans, although we all supposedly live in the same nation.
So who really has the problem there, Chas Cornweller?
I would say it was the two Black Power dudes, while you would say it was all the white people in this country with our white privilege and white guilt and implicit bias, as your hero, Hillary Clinton tells us.
BZZZZZZZ come the hornets.
And note the involvement of the sociologist Harry Edwards there, who had urged black athletes to boycott the games.
At the root of ALL social problems, one can find a sociologist causing them.
And if they had boycotted the games, would they have been missed?
I seriously doubt it, myself.
So what, who cares, let them stay home and sulk, this is a free country afterall.
And then you say, “After all, people of color (a very few…not all!) were burning their own cities, forming community groups such as the Black Panthers and political groups such as CORE and SNCC.”
Yes, Chas Cornweller, they were burning cities, but those cities were not their own, because black people in this country, just like white people, do not own cities to burn.
What they were burning and looting was the property of others, which you seem to condone, while I don’t.
So, BZZZZZZZZZZ, there come some more hornets in your direction.
And then you say, “You know, being all uppity and demanding equal rights in a country that had practiced unequal housing, employment, wages and political access, yet by its very Constitutional bylaws ensured such rights to all free men.”
That happened to be, Chas Cornweller, right at the same time LBJ had his Great Society program running, and he had acceded to Black Power demands by signing what was supposed to be major civil rights legislation to meet those demands.
But you know what, Chas Cornweller, it wasn’t enough, and for those people, it never will be enough.
And then you say, “So, you still wonder why African Americans are upset?”
And the answer in NO, Chas Cornweller, actually I don’t, especially as I am around black people who get up every day, who are law abiding, who love this country, and who get off their dead ***** each day to go to work as productive members of society, and to educate themselves to become doctors and nurses and such so they can fit into the same multi-ethnic society I am a part of.
So I guess I am associating with the wrong kind of black people here, the successful ones, the Uncle Toms, and Oreo cookies who sell out black America by going out to work in “the white man’s world,” as your black people who don’t like white people call it.
So be it, Chas Cornweller, you have your side of the street to walk on, while I have mine, and perhaps one day, the twain shall meet, but it won’t be because I have changed my attitudes.
It would only happen if black America changes theirs, and frankly, Chas Cornweller, I don’t see that happening in my remaining lifetime, so yes, we will agree as gentlemen to disagree, and Chas Cornweller, have yourself a glorious day.
Paul Plante says
Above here, I asked what I thought were two pertinent question related to these football protests, to wit:
Is that what we do when we stand for the Star Spangled Banner – show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color?
Or are we standing to show our respect for our unique heritage as a nation where people of all colors and ethnicities and creeds and beliefs can be free to be all that they are capable of being?
end quotes
My answer was that as one of this nation’s many disabled veterans, I say it is the latter, and I base that on many things, starting with my education as an American citizen in this nation after WWII, when the flag Colin Kapernick won’t show pride in, because he is too stupid to know the difference, had just defeated the forces of fascism which had engulfed Europe and the Japanese imperialism which had enslaved the nations of the Pacific region.
As to the correctness of my answer, versus the stupidity and ignorance of football players like Colin Kaepernick and in the case of the Jacksonville Jaguars, their owner, Shahid Khan, a Pakistani-American billionaire and business tycoon who as of August 2017 had a net worth over $8.7 billion which ranked him 70th in the Forbes 400 list of richest Americans, while he is overall the 158th wealthiest person in the world, all we need do is refer to the ASSOCIATED PRESS article “Jaguars apologize to local military for anthem demonstration” by MARK LONG, 17 OCTOBER 2017, wherein we in America and the candid world were informed as follows:
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) The Jacksonville Jaguars have apologized to military leaders for demonstrating during the national anthem in London last month.
Jaguars President Mark Lamping sent a letter to the director of military affairs and veterans in Jacksonville saying the team was ”remiss in not fully comprehending the effect of the national anthem demonstration on foreign soil has had on the men and women who have or continue to serve out country.”
end quotes
My goodness, how shortsighted and ignorant of them, which is the exact point I am making in this thread.
Getting back to the article:
The letter was forwarded to Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry on Monday and available via his public email.
Most of the Jaguars, including owner Shad Khan, locked arms during the anthem on Sept. 24.
About a dozen players took a knee during the playing of ”The Star-Spangled Banner” at Wembley Stadium.
”This was an oversight and certainly not intended to send a message that would disparage you, our flag or our nation,” Lamping wrote to Bill Spann, director of Jacksonville’s military affairs and veterans department.
end quotes
An oversight, people?
How about just plain ignorance coupled with hide-bound stupidity?
And again back to the article:
Lamping’s letter was dated Oct. 6 and it is unclear why it was forwarded to the mayor on Monday.
Lamping wrote it on behalf of Khan and Tom Coughlin, the team’s executive vice president of football operations.
”The notion never entered the minds of our players or anyone affiliated with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but today we can understand how the events in London on September 24 could have been viewed or misinterpreted,” Lamping wrote.
”We owe you an apology and hope you will accept it.”
end quote
Damn right they owe all of us an apology.
So, how can supposed grown-ups in the country be so stupid?
Were they intentionally brought up that way, does anyone think?
And again, back to the article:
The day after the game in London, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry called it stupid not to stand for the anthem even though such acts are protected by the U.S. Constitution.
”I stand and cover my heart for the pledge and the anthem,” Curry said in a statement.
”I think it’s stupid to do otherwise.”
“The U.S. Constitution protects the right for a lot of people to do a lot of stupid things.”
end quotes
And yes, that is what I get, as well, that the U.S. Constitution protects the right for a lot of people to do a lot of stupid things, which is what these football players are doing when they “take the knee,” as the Jacksonville Jaguars have finally realized and admitted to the world.
So thank you to the Jacksonville Jaguars for confirming the points I raised in here were accurate and dead on the money.
Paul Plante says
“BOMBAST,” my dear friend Chas Cornweller, as you would well know, being a well-known master wordsmith as well as an obviously accomplished master of the art of bombast in your polemic or screed above here, is defined thusly: “high-sounding language with little meaning, used to impress people,” and Chas Cornweller, by almost unanimous acclaim, people in America, your fellow citizens, have proclaimed you the polemicist of our times because of your skillful use of bombast in your above screed, and I thought you would want to know.
And what is it with this “Paul, I understand you are a patriot. We ALL get that.” comment of yours above here, Chas Cornweller?
You and whoever else is in with you on that obviously understand nothing at all, because I am not in here as a “patriot,” especially in the derogatory and pejorative sense that you use the word.
I am in here as a citizen of the Republic of the United States of America.
That is the only voice that I speak with in here – the voice of a citizen of the United States of America.
And using that voice, Chas Cornweller, I asked two simple questions above here, both of which you either missed or declined to answer, so I will ask them again, as follows:
You would think the dude (Colin Kaepernick) would be thankful for all that has been handed to him, but obviously not, for which I, a common American who worked to get out of poverty, have absolutely no respect for him whatsoever, and I certainly am not going to “celebrate” him as the self-professed liberals in this country want us to do.
But let us go back to his statement for a moment and parse it word for word: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”
Is that what we do when we stand for the Star Spangled Banner – show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color?
Or are we standing to show our respect for our unique heritage as a nation where people of all colors and ethnicities and creeds and beliefs can be free to be all that they are capable of being?
end quote
Take as much time as you need, Chas Cornweller, to ponder the answers to those questions as you believe they should be answered, because the candid world which watches and wonders would really like to know, and truthfully, so would I.