This letter was sent anonymously to the Mirror.
I would like to stay anonymous but feel the town should know the latest Bay Creek news.
Preserve Communities, who claim they want to be good neighbors with the town, plans to stop all non-residents from using any facility within Bay Creek– examples: Coachhouse, Golf Course, Beach Club, walking trails. They are selling “a lifestyle” and unless you are one of their club members you will be blocked.
We could not get a straight answer about current non-residents club members, whether their membership will be grandfathered or not. It sounds like, as of now, no non-property owners will not be able to join this special club “lifestyle”. Bay Creek will also be in direct competition with town businesses, new restaurants, a spa, and a new commercial retail shopping area.
Also, the new owners are in the process of taking amenities away from current property owners…amenities that have been included and paid for with HOA dues for years. Example: current pool and tennis courts will now become the racquet club, two sections of the South Beach will only be available to club members. Of course, the sections of the beach they are taking are the easiest to access and have been maintained for years with HOA dues.
Non-members will have to walk a good distance to use the beach.
Current residents who are now club members assume they are set, but I would imagine they will be getting a rude awakening as their dues skyrocket. Will their new membership contract be attached permanently to their properties and become mandatory, like it is with Preserve Community’s other properties???
In one webinar /conference call Preserve Communities mentioned getting the membership dues inline with their other properties. What does that mean, $300 maybe $500 a month with no limit on increases???
We are not getting any straight answer just a lot of corporate BS.
Ken Leland says
Seems to be the norm for the Cape Charles area. High taxes, expensive everything, keep the working class out and bring in the elite. Thank God for Hardy’s and Mc Donald’s.
William Barton says
I’m working class but have no issue with private exclusive communities & would like to be employed by them.
MJM says
hmmmm……. Let’s see, private property rights. Commercial owner decides how to sell or share usage with whoever they sell limited rights to, or decide to share with, however they wish, correct ? Within local zoning regulations is of course a consideration. Isn’t that what everyone on The Shore, and in Cape Charles, and America does ?
How about Hardy’s and McDonalds ? I don’t know anyone who goes in those restaurants and tells them what to charge, and have that dependent on what used to be charged. Nor does anyone get to use their deep fryer to make their own fries ? Or to deep fry some cod ? Of course it’s not the same, but then again……..
Folks who buy into a community like Bay Creek should know that the terms and conditions are subject to the changes of the owners, or new owners….
I am surprised to hear that anyone who is not a paying member expects any usage rights, or has any usage rights. If they do, they would also be subject to change, just like the price of fries is subject to change.
I don’t get why we would expect the new owners of Bay Creek to be opening their doors to people other than paying members, or should be setting their fees based on the previous structure of a failed entity.
Is there something wrong with the owners of this property deciding who uses their property and at what price ?
Rich says
I am a non-resident member of BC and this letter contains some misinformation and distortions. I’ve attended several PC meetings and completely understand what will happen to my membership in the future.
Bay Creek amenities have ALWAYS been in competition with local businesses. (Restaurants, gyms, etc.) If anything, their actions may drive more non-BC member business to local establishments.
Finally, I’m mystified why folks who have no financial stake in BC feel like they have a claim to the hiking trails, golf, gym and activities.
Joseph Francis Corcoran says
There are many issues here to be sorted out.
First in my mind : Does Bay Creek pay into the Cape Charles treasury or is it a liability ?
What services is Cape Charles responsible for providing Bay Creek ?
Chip says
As a BayCreek homeowner who has been paying HOA dues for 9 years, my biggest concern is that we are losing access to areas that our dues have been paying for. At the last meeting it was said that Preserve Communities is in talks with our HOA to buy the pool and tennis courts, owned by the HOA. If true, that means that as a home owner in BayCreek, unless you join into the BayCreek club, you will lose access to the pool and tennis courts.
It is crazy that Preserve Communities is talking about HOA increases while we as HOA members lose more access, unless you join their Club.
At the end of this year property owners have the opportunity to take over the control of the HOA. I hope that happens!
Brad says
Chip…thanks for posting this. My family is also a BC homeowner and have paid our HOA dues for several years now. Having 2 young kids we’ve come to rely on the HOA pool. If PC purchases the HOA pools and then closes them off to non-club members, I would imagine our HOA fees would decrease but you’re saying they might increase? How does selling the pools & tennis courts to PC benefit the HOA? Do you have confidence in our HOA leadership to make the right decision on whether or not to sell off our valuable assets?
Chip says
Brad they are back tracking on the purchase of the pool now. What was said on Friday night was that “Preserve Communities was in negotiations with the HOA to buy the HOA owned pool and tennis courts”.
Multiple people called out that statement and that was when they started back tracking. The map that Preserve Communities had on the wall showed that whole area as the new racquet club.
Think about it if the HOA no longer has a pool it gives you more incentive to join one of the Preserve Communities clubs. No pricing for clubs has been mentioned as of yet.
As for HOA fees, Preserve Communities on an earlier webinar talked about getting dues in line with their other Preserve Communities, which I would think that means they are going up. I could be wrong and maybe we will get a discount on our dues to offset the loss of access. Maybe Preserve Communities will also discount the golf club membership 25% since that is how many holes members lost.
As of now the developer is still in control of the HOA/POA. At the end of 2020 the property owners can vote to take control…I hope that happens! If you haven’t been involved with the HOA now is the time.
Robert Smith says
There is an old saying, ” If you want to dance, you have to pay the Fiddler!” BC is saying that in order to
pay for the new amenities, a fee is required. The fee is to be paid by those who use the facilities and that
is fair. However,in determining who and how to pay is the issue. Some of us have paid already to join the
Club and pay an additional monthly fee to maintain The Club ( approx. 20% ), in addition to our HOA fee.
The balance of Home owners pay the HOA fee and have done so for years and have enjoyed the use of the
beach, the community pool and the safety and security of living here. All of us are home owners and together form the nucleus of BC. As such we have earned the right, and have paid for some sort of special
handling . Recommendation: All new buyers must join, existing members are grandfathered and a third
category given to home owners that are not members that is very reasonable. The pressure should be on
the new Marketing Dept to sell the Club, not on existing owners.
Star says
Makes sense. Why would existing members who pay HOA fees and membership fees be penalized? When you buy an airline ticket, there is a wide range of prices for the same seats but those who have a track record with the airline paying over time get more perks. If a homeowner made the investment into the membership, they should be grandfathered into the top tier membership without extra dues and receive all of the amenities. Whereas, existing homeowners who were offered a membership, but elected not to buy, should not get the same deal as existing homeowner and membership holders. New buyers should be required to purchase memberships at current rates as they will have a membership with additional benefits compared to existing members who waited years for the benefits. Non-resident members should not get the same deal as homeowner resident members as they have to pay homeowner dues in addition to membership dues. This is not communist china, a free market system provides for competition but BC growth will actually increase traffic to all of CC benefiting businesses.
X Homeowner says
Thank god I got the hell out of there
Robert says
First. All “Unit” Owners of the property in Bay Creek at Cape Charles need to recognize that the Bay Creek at Cape Charles is NOT an HOA. It is a POA! Property Owners Association. By law there is a significant difference. POA’s are by nature and statute allowed to collect POA assessments on “Units” subjected to the POA Declarations. not homeowners who only have a “home:. The POA is not the PUD of Accomacke Plantation re-named Bay Creek. The POA only consists of “Units” subjected to Amendments to the Declarations, Covenants and Conditions of Bay Creek at Cape Charles. The PUD is the entire development. The POA is only those “Units” in plats submitted to and approved by the Town of Cape Charles. The POA board cannot vote 3,000 total ‘permitted’ lots. Only the 900+ Units subjected to the POA Declarations. Therefore the Board should be constituted according the Declarations as file in the Northampton County Court Clerks Office. December 31, 2020 ends the Declarant/Developer control period. No new HOA/POA is required. All of the assets conveyed by the Declarant Baymark, its successor Declarant Bay Creek LLC and its Second Successor Declarant, Bay Creek South L.L.C. are assets of the POA, even thought none of the prior Declarants ever paid Northampton County or Town of Cape Charles property taxes required of Developers when conveying common and or open space to the POA for future maintenance and other obligations – State Law. Further, the County Appraiser is required by State Statue to add to the value of all homeowners the increased value of the conveyed developer assets, which have been tacked onto the Bay Creek “Unit” owners since 2008. By the POA planned community statutes, all Declarants are in fact Developers, by law. Which means Preserve Communities is fully responsible for the completion of the unfinished and previous Declarants and Developers abandoned Marina Village East. The County tax assessor guided by contractor appraisers assumed all of Bay Creek was finished in 2008. The same year Bay Creek South L.L.C. sold its interest to Kaiser-Sinclair, after failing to convince a Korean developer to rescue the financial insolvent developer and POA. The POA Members subsidized the Declaration/Developers thru “In-Kind Contributions” exceeding $1m, which in effect should have deeded to the POA those assets listed in the POA annual audits – but then the Developer/Declarant would have had to pay to Northampton County and the Town of Cape Charles the real property tax due on those Pool, Tennis Complex, Guardhouse, Mail Shelters, Entrance gates, Monuments, etc., and County would have had to have, if not already added to the Bay Creek South and North Tract
Unit” owners property tax values. Look at the Declarations and see what a “Unit” is defined as. All of the Master Planned Community Bay Creek is by Town law/ordinance in the PUD Ordinance, not all properties are in the POA ! Therefore the POA developer controlled board can use 3,000 units as the ‘divisor’ in calculating votes and therefore does not have effective control. WAKE UP PRESERVE COMMUNITIES.
Also no building within the PUD is allowed over 40 feet by Town Ordinance, which by Town Charter is a Legislative Act. No Bay Creek Architectural Committee or Town Official can thereby approve a building permit over 40 feet. Properties in Parcel T are not exempt by POA from POA assessments, as they are within the PUD and the PUD required a POA development. Wake UP POA Board. Also properties in Heron Point are not exempt from POA Assessments, even though both Parcel T and some Heron Point Sales contracts ‘exempted them’ from POA assessments. Wake UP POA Board!
Robet says
Should have read. Therefore the POA developer controlled board can NOT use 3,000 units as the ‘divisor’ in calculating votes and therefore does not have effective control. WAKE UP PRESERVE COMMUNITIES.
Bill says
So currently Bay Creek golf courses are public courses…..which means that anyone can come there to play golf…. but what you are saying here is that they intend to make them a fully private “country club” rather than a public course? I don’t see how a limited private golf membership could support the upkeep required for a 27 hole layout without public players helping defer some of those costs. I understand that the other amenities (pools, gym, beach club) will be only for “members” but I doubt that is the plan for golf.
Robert says
Originally planned, the Brown & Root Accawmacke Plantation (now known as the Bay Creek at Cape Charles – a master planned community under Virginia laws – North (Town) and South (County) Tracts, employed over a dozen plannings experts and consultants, used the Town’s and Brown & Root’s counsel, Mr. Nutter in full communication and consultation with the Town and the County explained in numerous Annexation Hearings, that the Accawmacke Plantation would become an integral part of the Town of Cape Charles. This was and remains the primary reason and defense of the Annexation Petition filed by the Town in order to convince the State government Committee on such Annexation actions to allow the master planned community to ‘fit in’ with the expected revenue growth and sustainability of the Town of Cape Charles, once the industrialization of the Town and Harbor was in jeopardy. Even though the County and Mr. Jones tried in vain to prevent such an Annexation, mainly because the deal cut with the Town and Brown and Root was not going to be upheld nor could the Town implement such a master planned community endeavor given its limited capabilities, lack of town planning expertise, and given the facts that the Town failed to enforce its own Municipal Ordinances on the development of Bay Creek (e.g. no paved roads in Marina Village East (MVE) for over ten (10) years. No fenced-in or ‘gated communities’ were ever described or articulated. Streets were to be designed to match up with the Town’s existing streets, especially in the North Tract were the unfinished and incomplete subdivision Marina Village East is located. The issue of safety was fully discussed with the Town including the expanded use of the Town’s Police Department to have a role within the Bay Creek non-public streets. It should be noted that the Town approved the Marina Village East subdivision, while knowing that the Town faced a major dispute with Bay Creek over water and wastewater treatment plants expansion and upgrades and Mayor Sullivan advised all developers and builders in 2009 that no new subdivisions would be approved unless the wastewater treatment plant was expanded, calling on Bay Creek’s developers to pay their share of the costs. MVE, The Colony, and Kings Bay subdivisions are located in the North Tract and pay over one-third of all Bay Creek Property Owner Association assessments, including the prior developers in-kind contributions on marketed and advertised Bay Creek ‘amenities’, yet these property owners live, like the rest of the residents of Cape Charles – as foreigners to Bay Creek South Tract subdivisions and private amenities, partially paid for by the North Tract property owners – a full one-third
Bill says
Robert’s:
Have a sister-in-law that is looking to purchase a “new Construcion “ home in bay creek. Other then the crazy prices , what, in your opinion are the “torpedoes” that she needs to be looking out for regarding this PUD and it’s POA.
I’m concerned about this development. As I toured this place in May/2022 I could see no new homes being built by the “developers”, and only 3 by a builder who purchased a few lots. The lack of building progress (we understand the Covid issues related to building), is troubling and I’m concerned about how solvent the developers are as well as the POA.
Being an outsider trying to come up to speed on this place is a challenging process and talking with BC realtors is less then helpful.
Any input would be helpful.
Bill
Robert says
All Town and County residents should read the background of The Accawmacke Plantation, now known as Bay Creek at Cape Charles. See this document: Report on the Town of Cape Charles· County of Northampton Annexation Action Commission Commission on Local Government Commonwealth of Virginia February 1991 and read the Agreements on the Town of Cape Charles’ web page: https://www.capecharles.org/pview.aspx?id=13626&catid=0
And you will have a better understanding of what the Town, the County, the Annexation Court and the Northampton District Court intended Bay Creek to be as part of the Town of Cape Charles, not a private enclave.
Virginia Gentleman says
Since 2006 this simple caution remains:
CAVEAT EMPTOR !
C Fitch says
Interesting
Barb Penn says
Preserve Communities must raise their fee’s to pay for their legal fee’s to defend where they are being sued by the Federal Government for tax fraud. Do you think this has been swept under the rug? U.S.A ……United States of Amnesia.
These matters take time and the U.S. Government is going to take their time to shut them down, Hopefully you Creekers with the help of the U.S. government can get rid of Preserve and then you can concentrate on your short games and putting without a dark cloud hovering of your heads.
Prediction: There’s a Bad Moon Rising on this deal…….
Curmudgeon says
Sounds like Bay Creek should be renamed Schitts Creek which is where it looks like the homeowners will be if this tax fraud scam proves to be legitimate. Hey anyone got a paddle to lend these folks. Cause you don’t want to up that Creek without one. Sell now before your the last man standing.
Barb Penn says
If you can’t find any paddles folks try you 1 and 3 woods as oars or scoot on out the front gate with one of Preserves golf carts……
JD says
I heard Bay Creek doesn’t allow Cape Charles resident to play golf on their courses any longer. If true its not very neighborly of them. That would be akin to Cape Charles putting in parking meters on beach road and issuing a free parking pass to Cape Charles residents. To reach full potential Communities have to coexist . Excluding neighbors will not make Bay Creek more successful.