On September 11th, 2001, I drove into work at 6 am just as I always did. I worked for the US Army at the time, located at Ft. Belvoir in Alexandria, Virginia. I drove into the unguarded gate, parked, and walked passed the sleepy security staff that smiled and waved as I walked back to my office. I got a cup of coffee, and took care of early morning emails, checked my calendar, and started to prioritize tasking for the day. At about 9 am, a co-worker came running into my office, “A plane crashed into the World Trade Center!”
“The World Trade Center in New York?”
“No, the one in Topeka. Of course, the one in New York!”
I rushed down the hall to our EOC and watched in disbelief as smoke poured out of the south tower. Soon after, heavily armed soldiers came through the building and told us to evacuate. The Pentagon had just been hit.
Here is the timeline of what we watched the rest of the day, as reported by CNN:
9:17 a.m.: The Federal Aviation Administration shuts down all New York City area airports.
9:21 a.m.: The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey orders all bridges and tunnels in the New York area closed.
9:30 a.m.: President Bush, speaking in Sarasota, Florida, says the country has suffered an “apparent terrorist attack.”
9:40 a.m.: The FAA halts all flight operations at U.S. airports, the first time in U.S. history that air traffic nationwide has been halted.
9:43 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon, sending up a huge plume of smoke. Evacuation begins immediately.
9:45 a.m.: The White House evacuates.
9:57 a.m.: Bush departs from Florida.
10:05 a.m.: The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, plummeting into the streets below. A massive cloud of dust and debris forms and slowly drifts away from the building.
10:08 a.m.: Secret Service agents armed with automatic rifles are deployed into Lafayette Park across from the White House.
10:10 a.m.: A portion of the Pentagon collapses.
10:10 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 93, also hijacked, crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, southeast of Pittsburgh.
10:13 a.m.: The United Nations building evacuates, including 4,700 people from the headquarters building and 7,000 total from UNICEF and U.N. development programs.
10:22 a.m.: In Washington, the State and Justice departments are evacuated, along with the World Bank.
10:24 a.m.: The FAA reports that all inbound transatlantic aircraft flying into the United States are being diverted to Canada.
10:28 a.m.: The World Trade Center’s north tower collapses from the top down as if it were being peeled apart, releasing a tremendous cloud of debris and smoke.
10:45 a.m.: All federal office buildings in Washington are evacuated.
10.46 a.m.: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell cuts short his trip to Latin America to return to the United States.
10.48 a.m.: Police confirm the plane crash in Pennsylvania.
10:53 a.m.: New York’s primary elections, scheduled for Tuesday, are postponed.
10:54 a.m.: Israel evacuates all diplomatic missions.
10:57 a.m.: New York Gov. George Pataki says all state government offices are closed.
1:02 a.m.: New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani urges New Yorkers to stay at home and orders an evacuation of the area south of Canal Street.
11:16 a.m.: CNN reports that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is preparing emergency-response teams in a precautionary move.
11:18 a.m.: American Airlines reports it has lost two aircraft. American Flight 11, a Boeing 767 flying from Boston to Los Angeles, had 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard. Flight 77, a Boeing 757 en route from Washington’s Dulles International Airport to Los Angeles, had 58 passengers and six crew members aboard. Flight 11 slammed into the north tower of the World Trade Center. Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
11:26 a.m.: United Airlines reports that United Flight 93, en route from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, has crashed in Pennsylvania. The airline also says that it is “deeply concerned” about United Flight 175.
11:59 a.m.: United Airlines confirms that Flight 175, from Boston to Los Angeles, has crashed with 56 passengers and nine crew members aboard. It hit the World Trade Center’s south tower.
12:04 p.m.: Los Angeles International Airport, the destination of three of the crashed airplanes, is evacuated.
12:15 p.m: San Francisco International Airport is evacuated and shut down. The airport was the destination of United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania.
12:15 p.m.: The Immigration and Naturalization Service says U.S. borders with Canada and Mexico are on the highest state of alert, but no decision has been made about closing borders.
12:30 p.m.: The FAA says 50 flights are in U.S. airspace, but none are reporting any problems.
1:04 p.m.: Bush, speaking from Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, says that all appropriate security measures are being taken, including putting the U.S. military on high alert worldwide. He asks for prayers for those killed or wounded in the attacks and says, “Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts.”
1:27 p.m.: A state of emergency is declared by the city of Washington.
1:44 p.m.: The Pentagon says five warships and two aircraft carriers will leave the U.S. Naval Station in Norfolk, Virginia, to protect the East Coast from further attack and to reduce the number of ships in port. The two carriers, the USS George Washington and the USS John F. Kennedy, are headed for the New York coast. The other ships headed to sea are frigates and guided missile destroyers capable of shooting down aircraft.
1:48 p.m.: Bush leaves Barksdale Air Force Base aboard Air Force One and flies to an Air Force base in Nebraska.
2 p.m.: Senior FBI sources tell CNN they are working on the assumption that the four airplanes that crashed were hijacked as part of a terrorist attack.
2:30 p.m.: The FAA announces there will be no U.S. commercial air traffic until noon EDT Wednesday at the earliest.
2:49 p.m.: At a news conference, Giuliani says that subway and bus service are partially restored in New York City. Asked about the number of people killed, Giuliani says, “I don’t think we want to speculate about that — more than any of us can bear.”
3:55 p.m.: Karen Hughes, a White House counselor, says the president is at an undisclosed location, later revealed to be Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, and is conducting a National Security Council meeting by phone. Vice President Dick Cheney and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice are in a secure facility at the White House. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is at the Pentagon.
3:55 p.m.: Giuliani now says the number of critically injured in New York City is up to 200 with 2,100 total injuries reported.
4 p.m: CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports that U.S. officials say there are “good indications” that Saudi militant Osama bin Laden, suspected of coordinating the bombings of two U.S. embassies in 1998, is involved in the attacks, based on “new and specific” information developed since the attacks.
4:06 p.m.: California Gov. Gray Davis dispatches urban search-and-rescue teams to New York.
4:10 p.m.: Building 7 of the World Trade Center complex is reported on fire.
4:20 p.m.: U.S. Sen. Bob Graham, D-Florida, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, says he was “not surprised there was an attack (but) was surprised at the specificity.” He says he was “shocked at what actually happened — the extent of it.”
4:25 p.m.: The American Stock Exchange, the Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange say they will remain closed Wednesday.
4:30 p.m.: The president leaves Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska aboard Air Force One to return to Washington.
5:15 p.m.: CNN Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports fires are still burning in part of the Pentagon. No death figures have been released yet.
5:20 p.m.: The 47-story Building 7 of the World Trade Center complex collapses. The evacuated building is damaged when the twin towers across the street collapse earlier in the day. Other nearby buildings in the area remain ablaze.
5:30 p.m.: CNN Senior White House Correspondent John King reports that U.S. officials say the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania could have been headed for one of three possible targets: Camp David, the White House or the U.S. Capitol building.
6 p.m.: Explosions are heard in Kabul, Afghanistan, hours after terrorist attacks targeted financial and military centers in the United States. The attacks occurred at 2:30 a.m. local time. Afghanistan is believed to be where bin Laden, who U.S. officials say is possibly behind Tuesday’s deadly attacks, is located. U.S. officials say later that the United States had no involvement in the incident whatsoever. The attack is credited to the Northern Alliance, a group fighting the Taliban in the country’s ongoing civil war.
6:10 p.m.:Giuliani urges New Yorkers to stay home Wednesday if they can.
6:40 p.m.: Rumsfeld, the U.S. defense secretary, holds a news conference in the Pentagon, noting the building is operational. “It will be in business tomorrow,” he says.
6:54 p.m.: Bush arrives back at the White House aboard Marine One and is scheduled to address the nation at 8:30 p.m. The president earlier landed at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland with a three-fighter jet escort. CNN’s John King reports Laura Bush arrived earlier by motorcade from a “secure location.”
7:17 p.m.: U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft says the FBI is setting up a Web site for tips on the attacks: www.ifccfbi.gov. He also says family and friends of possible victims can leave contact information at 800-331-0075.
7:02 p.m.: CNN’s Paula Zahn reports the Marriott Hotel near the World Trade Center is on the verge of collapse and says some New York bridges are now open to outbound traffic.
7:45 p.m.: The New York Police Department says that at least 78 officers are missing. The city also says that as many as half of the first 400 firefighters on the scene were killed.
8:30 p.m.: President Bush addresses the nation, saying “thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil” and asks for prayers for the families and friends of Tuesday’s victims. “These acts shattered steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve,” he says. The president says the U.S. government will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed the acts and those who harbor them. He adds that government offices in Washington are reopening for essential personnel Tuesday night and for all workers Wednesday.
9:22 p.m.: CNN’s McIntyre reports the fire at the Pentagon is still burning and is considered contained but not under control.
9:57 p.m.: Giuliani says New York City schools will be closed Wednesday and no more volunteers are needed for Tuesday evening’s rescue efforts. He says there is hope that there are still people alive in rubble. He also says that power is out on the westside of Manhattan and that health department tests show there are no airborne chemical agents about which to worry.
10:49 p.m.: CNN Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl reports that Attorney General Ashcroft told members of Congress that there were three to five hijackers on each plane armed only with knives.
10:56 p.m: CNN’s Zahn reports that New York City police believe there are people alive in buildings near the World Trade Center.
11:54 p.m.: CNN Washington Bureau Chief Frank Sesno reports that a government official told him there was an open microphone on one of the hijacked planes and that sounds of discussion and “duress” were heard. Sesno also reports a source says law enforcement has “credible” information and leads and is confident about the investigation.
The world changed that day. For me, my sleepy job changed. No longer leisurely entry to Ft. Belvoir, we now navigated concrete barriers and guards with guns.
A few weeks later, as the war machine was ramping up, I had dinner with my brother-in-law, and as we talked about the 911 and what was happening, he remarked that our response to the attack should be, “We just do nothing. Just go on like nothing happened.”
At the time, I found that ridiculous. How do you not respond to an attack like that? But as time went by, I realized he was right. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but what Bush said, “Go out and shop!” was the perfect response. I understand the pressure to do something, and the President caved to hawkish individuals whose end game and agenda played right into the thirst for revenge.
But what if Bush had said, “This is a huge tragedy, and we mourn our dead brethren with all our souls and hearts. But America is big and strong, and this attack does not phase or slow us down one bit, it only strengthens us, and hardens our resolve. However, for those responsible for this, be sure we are coming for you. You will never know another day of peace or the rest of your lives.”
Don’t mobilize the Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force. Don’t invade and attempt to nation build. Instead, like a scene from Good Fellas, bodies just start showing up. Leave them in dumpsters, drop them in swimming pools, leave them in their beds. Retributions would be ours, but it would have been targeted by black ops. Make sure the deaths are calling cards—Special Forces and SEALS. Maybe leave a tape playing Foster the People “All the other kids with the pumped up kicks You’d better run, better run, out run my gun.” The way they took out Osama bin Laden, all the happy go lucky kids on the terrorist watch list should just have been marked off one by one–Death in the Dark of Night.
Work smarter not harder. How would the world be different today?
David Boyd says
Wow! Somebody finally said in print what I’ve thought all along. To this day, 16 years later, every time you go to an airport there are hundreds of people standing in line to have their shampoo and shoes checked and be wanded and searched like the suspected criminal they are supposed to be.
Think of all the wasted man-hours of productivity and the daily demeaning of each person’s individual honor in the name of “national security”. The cost of our vastly inflated reaction to what the terrorists did, is far greater than the actual damage they inflicted that day, in my opinion.
Raymond Otton says
“The cost of our vastly inflated reaction to what the terrorists did, is far greater than the actual damage they inflicted that day, in my opinion.”
What????????
Kearn Schemm says
An attack of the magnitude of 9/11 could not go unanswered. We knew who did it very soon after the fact (perhaps beforehand). Our nation was outraged and had to strike back. ALl this talk of “smart reactions” stinks of BO (Barack Obama) and his helpless and worthless “smart” reaction (do nothing reactions) to many, many issues – like NK and Iranian nuclear ambitions. Smart is great when passions are not aroused and something smart is, in fact, done. Smart in America today seems to just be an excuse for inaction.
Don Green says
Finally, a sensible editorial about the events on 9/11, and I could not improve on the first two comments that follow. The third repeats the conventional wisdom that “the attack could not go unanswered”. Of course it couldn’t, but we could have done it in a lest costly, more low-key manner, as the Israeli Mossad did. When Arab terrorists killed their athletes at early 1970s Olympic games in Germany, Mossad managed methodically to find and kill the attackers, with minimum publicity and cost and maximum effectiveness. They didn’t attack Egypt or Saudi Arabia. Instead, the Bush administration sent troops into Afghanistan, a country whose population didn’t attack the US. What ruin the Soviets didn’t manage to achieve, the US completed. Now, we have the above-mentioned politically correct inspections at airports, an ineffective huge national security bureaucracy, two foreign conflicts that nobody seems to know how to end, a huge national debt that, admittedly, Obama managed to double, and a sense that we are experiencing a period of national cultural decline. To avoid a the stereotype of being a liberal or an Obamaesque Alinskyite, I will state that nobody who is knows me denies my rightist bona fides.
Marsh Hen says
1) The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7.
It is commonly known that the Twin Towers fell on 9/11, but did you know that a third World Trade Center high-rise building also fell that day? WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper located one block from the Twin Towers was not hit by any plane, but collapsed at 5:20 that evening, imploding in the exact manner of a professionally engineered demolition. It fell suddenly, straight down, at near freefall speed, and landed in a compact pile of rubble, barely damaging any of the surrounding buildings. These are but a few of eleven characteristics of Building 7’s collapse that are consistent only with controlled demolitions. Further, the leaseholder of the three buildings, Larry Silverstein, said in 2002 on PBS that on the afternoon of 9/11 he suggested to the NYC fire department commander that they “pull” WTC 7. “Pull” is an industry term that means “demolish,” but it normally takes a team of skilled people many weeks to design and implement large demolitions. Astonishingly, there is no mention of WTC Building 7’s remarkable collapse in the 571-page 9/11 Commission Report.
2) Fire has never — prior to or after 9/11 — caused any steel frame building to collapse. The sudden, vertical, explosive, and total collapse of the Twin Towers at near freefall speed can only be explained by controlled demolition.
3) The WTC steel, which if fully examined could have revealed the effects of explosives, was quickly shipped overseas and melted down. This was an unprecedented violation of federal crime scene laws.
4) Whenever contact is lost with any airplane, fighter jets routinely take to the air to investigate. This commonly occurs about 100 times per year in well under 20 minutes. But on 9/11 nearly two hours passed without any interception.
5) The Secret Service broke established protocols by allowing President Bush to remain in a well-publicized classroom “photo op” long after it was known that the U.S. was under attack and he might well have been a target.
6) Unidentified insiders made millions on the stocks of American and United Airlines and those of other corporations that were likewise impacted by the attacks. These “put option” bets were made just prior to 9/11.
7) There were warnings of the impending attacks from at least eleven other countries. Also prior to 9/11, insiders such as John Ashcroft, top military officers, and San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown were warned not to fly.
8) In September of 2000, a group of neocon hawks, many of whom would become key officials in the Bush administration, wrote that their proposed massive military buildup would proceed slowly “absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor.”
9) Some of the alleged 9/11 “suicide hijackers” are still alive and well, according to the BBC and The Guardian. At least five of the alleged hijackers may have trained at U.S. military bases, as reported in Newsweek and other sources.
10) The Bush administration resisted the formation of the 9/11 Commission for 441 days. Similar investigations, such as those for Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, and the space shuttle disasters, all started in about one week.
11) “The Jersey Girls” — four courageous 9/11 widows — finally forced the 9/11 Commission into existence and presented many questions, most of which were ignored. Under the leadership of Bush administration insider Philip Zelikow, the final report failed to address any of the evidence pointing to official complicity.
There are hundreds of additional facts that contradict the official story of 9/11. It is time for a truly independent investigation that addresses all the questions asked by the citizens’ 9/11 Truth & Justice Movement!
David Cowan says
Here is a link you may find useful. Certainly worth the investment of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS8dNzRhMgk
David Boyd says
Definitely agree with Don Green. Use Mossad techniques, not a Big Brother attitude to our own citizens.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Marsh Hen, I think you may have missed ‘meds time’ at the facility. Derp, Fire is ALWAYS used to melt steel……….derp………..but really, nothing I say is gonna dislodge that tinfoil hat so……even showing you that Ruckelshaus’s EPA wouldn’t allow the asbestos wrap on the support pillars in the WTC……..
To those who say we should have mirrored the Israeli Munich response, their quiet way of doing it has ensured that the terrorism continues in that country.
We should have reduced to smoking, highly radioactive rubble several countries in the MENA theater.
IMHO, “Carthago delenda est” was the road we should have traveled.
Marsh Hen says
I did not claim those were my beliefs….I enjoy putting stimulation out there in the form of controversial comments and then I enjoy watching the knee-jerk reactions from people like you! Thanks for the free entertainment. By the way, they voluntarily congregate by the millions every year at Mecca.
Nioaka Marshall says
Have you ever thought of perhaps using a real name? I agree with the statement that you missed med time at the facility. Geeeezzzzzzzz… Stop wasting time and space to gain a little attention. Obviously, you know very little of the facts.
P.S. I always use my real name. No shame in my game. 🙂
Marsh Hen says
How would that change the meaning of the words I wrote? You responded in a classic knee-jerk reaction as well. So who is wasting time? I do as I please.
Paul Plante says
Mike, dude, I just love it when your face gets all red, and your eyes start bugging out of your head like your head is going to explode from all the volcanic pressures building up in there when posters like Marsh Hen (what is all this hysteria in here about concerning names – does a name change the meaning of the words posted, and how do any of us know Mike Kuzma isn’t some alias) post things you don’t agree with!
What makes you so popular with people up this way, Mike, and yes, you do have a huge fan base up this way thanks to the internet bringing you into so many homes all across America, like a CYBERSPACE version of Rush Limbo, is all the different and quite unpredictable ways you have of flying off the handle like a Roman Candle going off, which makes you so unpredictable, and hence, never boring, and with this “’Carthago delenda est’ was the road we should have traveled,” you are really strutting the stuff you are made of, Mike, for all the very interested and yes, engaged, candid world to see and appreciate, especially this part where you think we should have reduced to smoking, highly radioactive rubble several countries in the MENA theater, because of four plane crashes in America on 9-11.
Peddle to the metal, Mike, and drive on!
Fire all of your guns at once, and explode several countries in the MENA theater into space!
Talk about a proportional response, alright!
That would sure teach them Arab sand n-words something, wouldn’t it – waking up one morning surrounded by nothing but smoking, highly radioactive rubble.
I bet that would have them thinking twice about attacking America, wouldn’t it?
For those who do not understand Mike’s historical allusion, not having the same grasp of Latin as Mike does, The Baldwin Project website, which incidentally is geared for children, gives us the necessary insight by telling us that a noble old Roman, eighty-four years of age, had just finished a stirring speech in the Forum, or great market place of Rome, and these were his closing words: “Delenda est Carthago!” (Carthage must be destroyed!)
end quotes
Note that Carthage was really in North Africa, not the MENA theater Mike wants to make into nothing but smoking, highly radioactive rubble, but who wants to quibble with Mike about geography, so we’ll just accept the analogy as valid – because Carthage had to be destroyed, what the hell, let’s nuke a bunch of Middle Eastern nations as well, and let God sort them out.
The words of that old Roman were repeated by his hearers; they were carried into the street; they were discussed by excited men in every part of the city.
“Who says that Carthage must be destroyed?” asked one citizen of another.
“Cato the Censor says so,” was the answer.
“He says that two such cities as Rome and Carthage cannot long exist under the same sun.”
“One must soon submit to the other.”
“If Rome does not destroy Carthage, then Carthage will destroy Rome.”
“Then every Roman must join with Cato and cry, ‘Delenda est Carthago!’ ”
end quotes
There, people, is our Mike.
Destroy all the world and all in it who are not Americans, and finally, there will be peace in the land.
And can any of us really say that Mike is wrong to want to destroy the world and everything in it to save America?
Getting back to that speech of Cato that Mike quotes from as his justification for turning the Middle East into glass because of 9-11, Cato was dreadfully in earnest about the matter because Rome had already had two long wars with the great city on the other side of the Mediterranean, and Cato, when a young man of eighteen, had served as a soldier in one of these wars.
In his old age, when the cities were at peace, he had been sent as an ambassador to Carthage and he was astonished at what he saw there, for you see, Cato in his ignorance and arrogance had supposed that Rome was the richest and most powerful city in the world; but now he feared that he was mistaken.
He saw the harbor of Carthage swarming with ships from all parts of the world; the wharfs were piled with the wealth of many countries; the shops were filled with rich and rare merchandise; the market place was thronged with buyers and sellers; the beauty of the public buildings and the strength of the city walls surpassed anything of which Rome could boast; the wealth and power of Carthage were too great to be estimated.
And so when stern old Cato returned home he felt that there was but one way to save Rome.
He must arouse his countrymen to a sense of their danger.
Carthage must be destroyed.
When he had finished his speech in the Forum, he wrapped his toga about him and went down into the street.
Every one who saw him knew by the broad purple border on his white homespun toga that he was one of Rome’s great men—that he had held some of the highest offices in the gift of the city.
In the street Cato met many of his friends; and no matter on what subject they might talk, his last words when parting with them were, “Delenda est Carthago!”
He had been a Roman censor, and for a time had been the most powerful man in Rome.
He had had the oversight of the morals of the city, and had tried hard to preserve the simple, sturdy habits of his forefathers, and like Mike today, there was nothing that Cato hated more than luxury and self-indulgence; and now when he saw young men dressed in fashionable style idling in the streets, his anger was hot against them.
“Delenda est Carthago!” he cried, while reproving them for their folly.
And when he saw officers of the state living in fine houses and enjoying their wealth, he sneered at them in contempt and cried out, “Delenda est Carthago!”
He did not stay long in the city, but hastened to return to his farm on the Sabine, where he had lived all his life except when in the service of Rome.
And his first greeting to his family was, “Delenda est Carthago!”
The great Roman’s last days would have been spent peacefully enough if it had not been for the bitter hatred which he bore toward Carthage.
Whenever he went down to Rome, it was to stir up among his fellow-citizens the same feelings which he himself had.
Whenever he made a public address, whether it was upon politics or religion or farming, he did not fail to add a word about Carthage.
And when, at length, worn out by old age, he lay down for the last time upon his hard, humble cot, his farewell message was, “Delenda est Carthago!”
end quote
Will that be the fate of our hero Mike in this on-line drama taking place here in the pages of the CCM, live, with real people who are not paid actors pretending they are real people – to one day, when at length worn out by old age, lay down for the last time upon his hard, humble cot, with his farewell message to the world who loves him so for being the only Mike we have in here of any note, being “Delenda est Carthago!”
For that answer, you will have to stay tuned to this same station for future episodes of “The Story of Mike!”
And now, as we head into the break for station identification, a word from our sponsors.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
“There are hundreds of additional facts that contradict the official story of 9/11. It is time for a truly independent investigation that addresses all the questions asked by the citizens’ 9/11 Truth & Justice Movement!”
Truly sorry that your education was such that you are unable to see that this comment of yours belies your disassociation from the puerile “Stimulation” that you spewed earlier.
Own it, Marsha. Own it.
Don Green says
Too often an intelligent editorial and reasoned comments end in the mindless ad hominem attacks on someone’s education, intelligence, maturity, etc. I refer to Mr Kuzma’s comments. This name-calling is the last resort of someone who appears never to have learned and is perhaps incapable of proper debate. I’m not in favor of censorship of any exchanges, but Mr. Kuzma’s certainly dumb down the entire exchange. His comments belong on a facebook page, where insulting comments are often the norm.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Don, learn English. When one ends a diatribe with the statement I highlighted, it denotes ownership of the preceding commentary. Sorry that you missed that.
Facebook? Sorry, I’m a grown man and am unfamiliar with that. I’ll leave it to teenagers and folks like you.
9/11 truthers deserve no respect and will get none from me.
Marsha Kuzma says
No, I just copied and pasted that diatribe from the web to get a reaction or two. You responded like a, well stimulated, human lab-rat in a classic knee-jerk fashion…not once, but twice.
David Cowan says
Clearly, what we should NOT have done was invade Iraq. I thing it was the result of faulty intelligence and over-eager staffers.
What should we have done about Afghanistan? I think we should have done something, but perhaps more along the line of doing as much damage as possible to the Taliban and to Al Qaeda from the air, and kept it up for months and months. Then tell them to fix their country themselves, we don’t care how and we don’t care who runs it, but if we get wind of any activity of Al Qaeda or others, we will be back.
Re: black ops. Not so easy in a county like Afghanistan.
Paul Plante says
On 9-11, I walked into a coffee shop in a small city on the Hudson River north of NYC, and the first thing I was confronted with was this young person on the verge of hysteria screaming at me, “did-ja hear, the terrorists hi-jacked four planes and they are flying them into building!”
My response then and now was, “that is impossible, how could someone hi-jack even one plane I the USA at that time, let alone four?”
Of course, this hysterical person has no response to that, being hysterical as he was, and being young, he was clueless at to the history of airplane hi-jackings which preceded 2001 and all the so-called “security” measures put in place to prevent the hi-jacking of even one plane, let alone four at the same time.
Anyway, I sat down, drank my coffee, watched a plane fly into one of the World Trade Center towers, watched the flames, etc., etc., etc., all the time wondering, wondering, wondering, because when something impossible is happening, like the masterful hi-jacking of not one, not two, not thee, but fully four big airplanes, that peaked my curiosity.
That could not have happened but for either collusion from within, or gross incompetence.
And that reminded me of Operation Northwoods, which was a proposed false flag operation against the Cuban government, that originated within the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. (yes, some of us were actually alive and aware in 1962)
The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other U.S. government operatives to commit acts of terrorism against American civilians and military targets, blaming it on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba.
The plans detailed in the document included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.
The proposals were rejected by the Kennedy administration.
Hmmmmm.
Back to you, Mike Kuzma!
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
I grew up with a house on Long Beach Island, in NJ. Down the street was the nicest family you’ve ever met. A family that made other kids long for the warmth, love and unity that they evinced.
Each and every child was devoted to his or her family, and Country. Truly, watching these people I was jealous of their love for each other.
Then one day, Michael went to work. Put on his uniform, snugged up his tie and off he went.
Michael Horrocks was my neighbor. He was also the co-pilot of the 2nd plane to hit the tower.
Take your fantasies and conspiracy theories, roll them up into a tight tube and shove them straight up where the sun doesn’t shine.
Not one of you is worth the dirt on his shoes.
Every time I go to visit my family, I will stop in to CC to gaze upon the stupidity and ignorance that is pervasive.
Don Green says
Note to all: Mr. Kuzma appears determined to have the last word on this 9/11-related subject. I, for one, am willing to give him that satisfaction. At least he’ll THINK he won the debate.
Marsh Hen says
He sounds more and more like a ‘Piney’ with every word he types. For those of you, not familiar with Jersey, do your research.
Paul Plante says
CONSPIRACY THEORIES, Mike, and I realize you are emotional here, so perhaps somewhat off your usual balance, but what “conspiracy theories?”
Martians were actually using mental telepathy to make those planes hit those towers and the Pentagon?
Or are you saying that it was all an illusion – the planes we saw hitting the towers and Pentagon were nothing more than holograms, because the Martians had sucked the real planes up into a Martian spaceship on an interplanetary slave raid, while the buildings were destroyed by a Martian death ray?
Come on, Mike, even coming from you, that is preposterous!
So what really is YOUR theory, Mike, to put to bed all these so-called Martian conspiracy theories you are trying for some as of yet undefined reason to get us to buy into, as if we were rubes at a county fair.
If you really did know this guy, Mike, and I’m taking you at your word, why did he do it?
Why would he do it, Mike?
Why would he fly his airplane into a tower and kill all those people?
Can you tell us that?
Why, Mike?
Or are you saying it wasn’t him doing the flying that day?
Let’s start there, if that is alright with you.
Chas Cornweller says
Should we have done nothing? A very good question to ask. Especially in hindsight. I can remember having the arguments with co-workers of the HUGE mistake of invading Iraq and entering that theater of war. Unfortunately, in hindsight, I was correct. I personally believe that, the United States government has spent its collective world empathy, reaped on that infamous day in September, in spades. Whatever collateral we had gained through world opinion, is gone. And I know some of you “voices” out there on the Mirror will crow “Who cares what the rest of the world thinks!” Well, honestly, I for one, care very much what my cousins in England think of us. I even care what the Chinese and Russians think of us. But, slowly, we frittered away the last of goodwill we owned.
Secondly, the American citizenry, overnight, became pariahs in their own country. The Patriot Act was passed through a consenting Congress without so much as a whimper. The same with the vote on the invasion of Iraq. Which, by the way, not only highly controversial, perhaps illegal (World Court Opinion still counts) making George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell and a host of others, war criminals. You know, like those fine guys who brought you World War Two by invading Poland on the pretext of an attacked radio station. So along with the Patriot Act, a trillion-dollar plus (and counting) war debt and the creation of Homeland Security (which by the way, on paper – I actually see a need for) and the TSA (Transportation Security Administration – where the hell were they on September 10th?). The country has gone through sixteen years of lockdown, color coded security frights, and war. Jefferson and Washington and Franklin and Adams (and all the rest of the gang) I am sure are shaking their collective heads. America – the prison that brings you war, terrorism and profitability through the military industrial complex, gets a leg up through a despicable act. (does it really matter – at this point who was “BEHIND” it? (Marsh Hen, Mike Kuzma, Nioaka Marshall)- We live in a sad, paranoid, conspiracy fed, low information, shackled by our own laws and protections, society. Who the F. cares who did it? We did it to ourselves if you need ask. We trained Al Qaeda. We financed bin Laden. We weren’t watching the ball on the morning of September 11. We “Allowed” four planes to roam the skies free for over an hour so they could enter air space over two major cities surrounded by air bases. And in the aftermath, we did all those things to the American citizens that siphoned away more of our basic freedoms. And when I say WE, I mean our Government. So, congratulations on that. When you remove your shoes while standing in a screening line in the airport, do you feel safer? Or just inconvenienced?
Lastly, I am of the ilk that is torn by what happened on 9/11. I watched from the safety and distance of the conference room big screen that fine crisp fall day. But, I heard the voices of those who had “family” in New York…relatives and husbands in the Pentagon. I anguished over whether this was the vast “Slippery Slope” into the void and whether I would be home that night to hug my daughters and my wife. I was frightened, angry and disgusted at the world and the little minds that created this scenario. My gut was saying “well in 1941 when we were last attacked, we finished up that job by dropping an Atomic weapon.” I thought that should be our reaction then. We knew from where the orders had come. We had the capability to deliver a small megaton dose to that area. So, we should do it. And if Russia and China and England and India and Pakistan and all the others in our global village protested…we say nothing. Nothing, silence and nothing. A week or two, the government (doing what they always do) seeks a back channel to gather what’s left of the head of Al Qaeda, sit them at the table and quietly and deliberately state, now this is enough. Let us either work this out, or by this time next year, everyone one of you in this room and your families will no longer exist. No press, no muss, no fuss. That would have been my method of dealing with the ones behind the plan. But, alas…no, that is not what happened. You see, I think certain people got away with something. I think the American people were duped by culpable others. Nineteen Saudi’s were the terrorists on those planes. One Egyptian was at the controls. Yet, we took our revenge out on Iraq. Strange. Yes, we invaded Afghanistan, and disabled the camps that trained terrorist (and had been doing so for over five years!) but, we never caught the mastermind. We allowed him to cross into Pakistan to live for another nine and a half years. We put into place laws and statutes that will continue to hamstring and harass ordinary American citizens for years. We have expounded upon a fear based society and spread it into the very fiber of our being. At long last, we have created a society that is ripe for the picking much like the society of Germany in the days of the Reichstag fire. And when I say “WE”, you know who I mean. Should “WE” have done nothing? Ask yourself, what have we gained by what “WE” did do? That is the better question.
Paul Plante says
RESPOND TO WHAT, Chas Cornweller?
There is my question for you – what on earth would it have been on 9-11 that we would have been responding to?
Four planes that we know of crashed on the day.
That is all I know that happened that day that was even slightly out of the ordinary, and the way America is all ****** up these days, that was something I just took in stride, as if airplanes running into building in New York City was now an every day normal occurrence.
As it happens, while we are talking about grieving for victims of plane crashes and processing that grief, a good friend of mine was killed in a plane crash out in Chicago, actually, a plane crash that I am sure you remember as much as you obviously recall the plane crashes on 9-11.
So how should I have responded to that, do you think, Chas Cornweller, knowing someone who died on that plane?
How would you respond to that, and in turn, have me respond?
How many different responses can there be to the reality of a plane crash, which are not all that uncommon?
And are any of those responses then appropriate for 9-11 as well, or is 9-11 somehow different, so that the loss of my friend who died in the Chicago plane crash is somehow insignificant compared with the lives of those who died in the 9-11 plane crashes?
And why on earth, Chas Cornweller, and here, I make my appeal to you as a rational thinking person among us in here, why on earth would we invade Iraq because of 9-11?
Have you ever delved that and figured it out?
Both Joe Biden and Hillary Rodham Clinton were for it, you know, invading Iraq to teach Saddam Hussein some kind of lesson about sending Saudi Arabian terrorists over to America to hi-jack four planes in a single day to kill Americans with.
Why do you think that was?
What would either of them get out of invading Iraq?
There is, of course, a pervasive belief here in America that the “real” reason for the war against Iraq, the reason Hillary and Joe Biden were so hot to go to war with him, was Saddam Hussein’s decision to price Iraqi oil in the new EURO currency of the European Union rather than in U.S. Dollars.
As you recall, that argument goes that unless the price of oil is denominated only in Dollars, then the U.S. would not be able to continue to run huge balance of payments deficits, which would crimp the hell out of the lifestyles of professional-class politicians like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, big time, and so Saddam had to go, simple as that, and what the hell, 9-11 was as good an excuse as any to justify invading Iraq, because who in America would know the difference between one Arab and another?
Where do you find yourself coming down on that?
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Mr. Cornwweller, the TSA was not created until AFTER 9/11 so they did not exist on 9/10.
But hey, I’m the ignorant one here.
Some dude from Virginia said once………..”It is in our interest to punish the first insult, for the insult unpunished is the parent of many others.”
But it sure seems that those Virginians are in short supply, especially in Cape Chuck.
Nemo me impune lacessit.
And I won’t make any bigoted comments about Pineys or Eastern Shore folks, I’m not like Marsha. A nasty bigoted bomb thrower. Typical liberal, hides behind a nom de plume.
Neither you nor Donny are worthy to lick the boots of the man who tends Michael’s grave.
You are a stain on our Republic.
Marsh Hen says
As Mr. Bell has asked so many times, with no takers. Please leave a phone number and I will call you asap. This is not the place for that type of discussion. Any time.
You take advantage of the comfort of the keyboard, as all replies to you are moderated.
Chas Cornweller says
Mike, I believe a little reading comprehension is in order for you. The sentence reads as such: “So along with the Patriot Act, a trillion-dollar plus (and counting) war debt and the creation of Homeland Security (which by the way, on paper – I actually see a need for) AND the TSA (Transportation Security Administration – where the hell were they on September 10th?). The country has gone through sixteen years of lockdown, color coded security frights, and war.” Implying that HAD TSA been implemented before 9/11, 9/11 may not have occurred. I apologize for writing such dense statements, that few can grasp my intent.
As far as your friend Michael is concerned, I am truly, sincerely sorry for your loss and his family’s loss. It WAS and is still a tragic day. But, I will always contend that had the Bush administration listened to the prior administration’s advice, many things would have been done differently and possibly this tragic day averted. Who knows? I surely don’t…but neither do you!
As far as me being a stain on our Republic. You sir, are a joke. This is no Republic. Hasn’t been for over a hundred years. It is a slow-moving train disaster, stolen by the uber-rich and loaded with a train load of sycophants such as yourself aimed on course to the financial precipice…All the while, thinking the greatest days lie ahead. If my words cause you to think I am a stain…then so be it. But, your words paint you as a bonified jackass. Michael is gone, get over yourself. Let the dead bury the dead.
Note: Not sure why the blame always falls on the Bush Administration. The first attack on the WTC took place in the early 90s, and nothing was done. The cells that carried out the attack trained in US flight schools during the Clinton Administration. As far as warnings, the passdown from the Clinton Administration to Bush was to remove all the ‘W’s from the computer keyboards in the White House.
More from Chas: Actually, Wayne, Time Magazine (in the spring of 2002) had a tremendous article stating that by August of 2001, of how the Bush administration (only in office since January of 2001) had not heeded the warnings from the Clinton administration and information gathered up to that point of the interest in piloting and acquiring aircraft. And yes, the WTC was the target of several other bombing attempts. But, then again, the Marine barracks bombing in 1983 led to what? Accountability falls on the holder of the office. For better or for worst.
Paul Plante says
Chas Cornweller, are you actually trying to tell us older folks in here who flew before 9-11-2001 and had to remove various articles of clothing like metal belt buckles for the crotch whackers in airport security so they could “wand” us to make sure we weren’t trying to sneak in a .50-caliber machine gun or maybe a couple of RPG’s in our underwear to hijack a plane with, so we could board the plane, that before 9-11, there was no airport security?
Is that what you are actually saying here?
Because if so, that is bull****, which is why I say that on 9-11, it was IMPOSSIBLE for four separate well-organized and militarily-efficient teams of hijackers who all but cruised through airport security on 9-11 to steal not one, not two, not three, but fully four aircraft.
IMPOSSIBLE, Chas Cornweller.
But the impossible happened, didn’t it, so how?
How long had we had airport security before 2001?
How about since 1969!
Yes, Chas Cornweller, airports have been screening for potential hijackers since 1969, when the FAA developed a profiling system to use in conjunction with metal detectors.
So how is it that THIRTY-TWO (32) years later, in 2001, these four teams of hijackers were literally able to cruise right through that same airport security put in place in 1969 to keep out hijackers?
And where were the air marshalls, Chas Cornweller?
Surely you must remember the sky marshalls who were supposed to keep us safe from teams of hijackers like those who so successfully hijacked not one, not two, not three, but four full-sized aircraft on 9-11, as if it were child’s play to do so, which for them, it actually was.
I’m surprised they all didn’t come through the airport in a conga line with boomboxes blaring out “La Cucaracha,” while crying out, “make way, make way, we are your new flight crew, so please let us through!”
Getting back to these sky marshalls, Chas Cornweller, according to WIKIPEDIA, way back in 1961, when you were but a young lad if I have the math anywhere near correct, President John F. Kennedy ordered that federal law enforcement officers be deployed to act as security officers on certain high-risk flights and the Federal Air Marshal Service began on March 2, 1962 as the Federal Aviation Administration’s FAA Peace Officers Program.
As early as 1963, Chas Cornweller, which was quite a ways back in time before 2011, after an article in FAA Horizons Magazine, the FAA Peace Officers were referred to as Sky Marshals internally within the FAA, although the term would not be used by the media for nearly a decade.
Many years after their initial inception, personnel were given firearms and some close quarters combat training at the FBI Academy located on the U.S. Marine Corps training grounds at Quantico, VA.
Now Chas Cornweller, since we are delving actual American history here, in October 1969, due to the increasing violence of hijacked aircraft in the Middle East, the U.S. Marshals Service started a Sky Marshal Division out of the Miami Field Office.
Since the majority of hijackings were occurring out of Florida in the late 1960s, the U.S. Marshals Service started their program to try and combat air piracy given their broad jurisdiction.
The “Sky Marshal Program” of the 1970s later became a joint effort between the U.S. Customs Service (now U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)) and the FAA and was led by General Benjamin O. Davis Jr., a former Tuskegee Airman.
On September 11, 1970, in response to increasing acts of air piracy by Islamic radicals, President Richard Nixon ordered the immediate deployment of armed federal agents on United States commercial aircraft.
September 11, 1970, Chas Cornweller – increasing acts of air piracy by Islamic radicals!
Isn’t 1970 something like THIRTY-ONE (31) years before 2001?
And focus in on the words “Islamic radicals,” Chas Cornweller, even though we aren’t supposed to talk about Islamic radicals in a bad way lest we make them feel bad about themselves,, and thereby offend the sensitivities of some self-proclaimed “liberal” in this country who want us to make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, by giving them group hugs.
Wasn’t it “Islamic radicals” whom committed those acts of air piracy on 9-11-2001?
Getting back to WIKIPEDIA, initially, the deployed personnel were federal agents from the U.S. Department of Treasury, but subsequently, the United States Customs Service formed the Division of Air Security, and established the position of Customs Security Officer (CSO), and approximately 1,700 personnel were hired for this position and were trained at the Treasury Air Security Officer (TASOS) training complex at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.
Customs security officers were deployed on U.S. flagged commercial aircraft, flying on both domestic and international routes in an undercover capacity in teams of two and three.
Customs security officers also handled ground security screening on selected flights at domestic U.S. airports.
Following the mandatory passenger screening enacted by the FAA at U.S. airports beginning in 1973, the customs security officer force was disbanded and its personnel were absorbed by the U.S. Customs Service.
WHOOPS, hold it a moment, scroll back up there to the phrase “Following the mandatory passenger screening enacted by the FAA at U.S. airports beginning in 1973,” and let us ask Chas Cornweller what mandatory passenger screening means, and how these four teams of hijackers managed to evade it on 9-11-2001.
And while we wait for that answer, which I don’t expect in my lifetime, in 1985, President Ronald Reagan requested the expansion of the sky marshall program and Congress enacted the International Security and Development Cooperation Act, which expanded the statutes that supported the Federal Air Marshal Service.
Contrary to the impression given in the TSA “Our Mission” statement, the FAM program was begun in response to domestic hijackings and FAM operational flights were almost exclusively conducted on domestic U.S. flights until 1985.
After the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 in 1985 and the enactment of the International Security and Development Cooperation Act, the number of FAMs was increased and their focus became international U.S. air carrier operations.
From 1992 to just after the attacks on 9/11, the air marshals had one of the toughest firearms qualification standards in the world.
A study from the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) later came out with a classified report during this time period, placing Federal Air Marshals among the top 1% of combat shooters in the world.
So again, I make the statement that with our own documented history of hi-jackings in this country which were commonplace when I was young, followed by our history of law enforcement efforts to thwart hi-jackings which go back all the way to the early-1960s, what happened on 9-11-2001 was IMPOSSIBLE.
So, Chas Cornweller, and yes, you too, Mike Kuzma, Jr., how in 2001, all those years later, could four teams of hijackers all successfully manage, each of them, to actually get far enough through modern airport security to steal four airplanes?
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Reading these comments I now know why, and how the different administrations in CC have managed to steal from and abuse you all for so long.
Go gather around Central park and stare at your $10 old school building, stand by your oh so necessary waste water treatment plan, go pay your outrageous water hook up fees and drink yourselves into oblivion.
I feel sorry for the few of you who are still sentient. Get out fast. You are surrounded by people who will willingly turn you into the Stasi for a few crumbs of bread.
Pathetic.
Paul, with your comments, you have sullied your service. How dare you say what you said. You have shown yourself to be a vile piece of excrement.
I can’t wait to see Bay Creek pave over your entire town, CC fading into the past as it is destined to do.
Marsh Hen says
‘Paul, with your comments, you have sullied your service.’
When did you serve? How dare you speak of a Vet’s service like that. I have no use for one that holds a man’s military service against him. You have a problem. I hope that you continue to gain confidence by commenting on moderated forums….it will, ultimately, give you the confidence to do it in person. Please believe that there are still men out here that will hold you accountable for your spoken or written words. By the way, I do not care about Paulie Planter, but respect his service.
Paul Plante says
“Sullied my service,” Mike?
Are we on the same page here, even, since you seem right now to be coming in from outer space somewhere with this crazy talk of me “sullying my service?”
Are we both talking about verb “sully,” which means “damage the purity or integrity of; defile;” because if we are, then it becomes very obvious to even a blind man, or a person of limited intelligence, that far from even coming close to damaging the purity or integrity of my military service, or defiling it, by speaking out in here about my own memories of what I witnessed transpiring on 9-11, which was just another day for me, actually, I was bringing honor onto my military service, which includes a Combat Infantry Badge, Mike, and a Silver Star and two Purple Hearts, and two Army Commendation Medals, and two Air Medals, all of which you seem to state or imply above aren’t worth **** as far as you are concerned.
And you know what, Mike?
Yes, dude, in America, you are as entitled as Hillary Clinton was and Jane Fonda was and those progressives in San Francisco who were spitting at us returning veterans were to dislike military veterans, or to demean their service for your political purposes.
Let’s face it, Mike, when somebody like you is failing to carry any points in a public debate, as is happening to you in here, and instead is falling further and further behind as each of your debating points are shown to be based on nothing but whimsy, chimera, and all too often, just plain hog ****. then going on the attack as you did in here with this specious charge that in using a public forum to express my thoughts on 9-11 and the subsequent very obvious cover-up, if anyone has bothered to read “Without Precedent, The Inside Story of the 9-11 Commission” by Thomas H. Kean and Lee H. Hamilton word for word and page by page as I did. was somehow dishonoring my military service was a damn good tactic on your part, given you had nothing to lose by trying it, and who knows, Mike, that with a different debating opponent, it might actually have worked.
It is like sticking a sharp stick at someone’s eyes, impugning the integrity of a veteran’s military service like that, but I am too in control of my emotions to be taken off by base by such an obvious trick as that, a verbal equivalent of a gladiator reaching down and throwing sand at his opponent’s eyes, so your attack just hits the outer edge of my guardian qi field, and from there dribbles down to the ground, its poison dissipated and spent, unable to do me any harm whatsoever.
And Mike, dude, what on earth is this horse poop above here where you suddenly blurt out “Paul’s comment about a fellow serviceman who was slaughtered on 9/11 puts him in the same category as: McCain(Nee songbird), John Kerry. and Benedict Arnold,” and “It’s after noon, shouldn’t you be drunk by now?”
Who, Mike?
Who should be drunk because it is after noon?
That comment is too cryptic for most people to grasp and let me tell you in all honesty, Mike, I am one of them.
Call me dense, but that one flew right over my head, and I know I am not alone, so you can’t say it is just me.
And what is this about a fellow serviceman who was slaughtered on 9-11?
What comments are you talking about, Mike?
I didn’t know anybody who died on 9-11, including my fellow servicemen, so I wouldn’t have been making such comments in the first place, so somehow, Mike, and I know your emotions are out of whack right now with some obviously un-processed grief you are still carrying, you have become confused here, thinking my friend who died in a Chicago plane crash was one of those who died on 9-11.
Mike, in closing, dude, people care about you and they are praying you get through this blackness that surrounds you as a result of this un-processed grief, and Mike, as a fellow human being, consider me one of them.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
My wish, dear marsh hen is for you to be included in someone’s bag limit this year.
Come mierda y muerte, puta cabron.
Paul’s comment about a fellow serviceman who was slaughtered on 9/11 puts him in the same category as:
McCain(Nee songbird)
John Kerry.
and Benedict Arnold.
It’s after noon, shouldn’t you be drunk by now?
Marsh Hen says
Bless your heart…you don’t know any better. Bless your heart, you are not very bright. Keep right on gaining that false sense of security you get from this moderated forum…Bless Your Heart!
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
“If you really did know this guy, Mike, and I’m taking you at your word, why did he do it?
Why would he do it, Mike?
Why would he fly his airplane into a tower and kill all those people?
Can you tell us that?
Why, Mike?”
A more odious suggestion has never been made on these pages before.
You are no Countrymen of mine.
Paul Plante says
Odious?
Get real, Mike.
There is absolutely nothing odious whatsoever with my words you are cherry-picking from, where I have clearly offered you an ample opportunity in a very public forum to answer that with a rational explanation for how it was a man you knew came to be on a big jet that ran into a building on 9-11-2001, how you explain that, which you have declined to do, where odious is an adjective which is defined as extremely unpleasant; repulsive, with the following synonyms: revolting, repulsive, repellent, repugnant, disgusting, offensive, objectionable, vile, foul, abhorrent, loathsome, nauseating, sickening, hateful, detestable, execrable, abominable, monstrous, appalling, reprehensible, deplorable, insufferable, intolerable, despicable, contemptible, unspeakable, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, frightful, obnoxious, unsavory, unpalatable, unpleasant, disagreeable, nasty, noisome, distasteful; ghastly, horrible, horrid, gross, godawful; beastly, as in “the odious procedures of the military government.”
What is ghastly, horrible, horrid, gross, godawful or beastly about me responding in a very rational and logical manner to a post made by yourself in here on September 12, 2017 at 12:44 pm as follows:
I grew up with a house on Long Beach Island, in NJ.
Down the street was the nicest family you’ve ever met.
A family that made other kids long for the warmth, love and unity that they evinced.
Each and every child was devoted to his or her family, and Country.
Truly, watching these people I was jealous of their love for each other.
Then one day, Michael went to work.
Put on his uniform, snugged up his tie and off he went.
Michael Horrocks was my neighbor.
He was also the co-pilot of the 2nd plane to hit the tower.
Take your fantasies and conspiracy theories, roll them up into a tight tube and shove them straight up where the sun doesn’t shine.
Not one of you is worth the dirt on his shoes.
Every time I go to visit my family, I will stop in to CC to gaze upon the stupidity and ignorance that is pervasive.
end quote
Mike, let’s face, dude, you were on a real roll there with some real vintage Mike being the result, especially that line about “Not one of you is worth the dirt on his shoes,” which is a line, Mike, I think only you with your Roman orator skills could pull off and not have it sound campy or overly melodramatic.
But here is the meat of the matter or the obvious bone of contention:
“He was also the co-pilot of the 2nd plane to hit the tower.”
end quotes
Those are your words, Mike, and if you don’t believe me, scroll back up and you will see them yourself.
That is what you said, and that is what I heard you say.
So what is your explanation for that?
Why do you duck and dodge so, Mike?
Why not a simple straight answer for how the dude found himself in that particular set of circumstances?
Why all the slithering around and beating around the bush?
Before you started telling us that not one of us is worth the dirt on his shoes, which right there made it pretty obvious to me that I already was not a countryman of yours, which actually I was fine with, as that means I can deny with honesty that you are a countryman of mine; I had never heard of the dude, Mike, so I found your statement that he was also the co-pilot of the 2nd plane to hit the tower odd, as in why would someone do that?
By the way, Mike, in one of life’s little ironies, I was sitting there in that coffee shop about 160 miles or so north of New York City having my coffee while watching the chaos in New York City, where people were running like lemmings and jumping en masse into the filthy waters of the Hudson River to escape they knew not what, when your friend’s plane flew into the 2d tower.
“Some dude really knew what he was doing,” was the general comment from the WWII veterans assembled watching the show, because that was some damn fine flying to come around so fast in a turn and still be able to hit a needle in a hay stack at high speed pretty much dead on, and they were dudes with a lot of experience in watching bomber pilots miss a target by a mile.
And then, I finished my coffee and left, Mike, so I never did hear the story of what was going on with any of those planes that day.
That was why I hoped for once you would stand and explain instead of persisting in this slippery evading that you are doing here with this ridiculous charge that me daring to question you is in any way odious.
And why do you think Operation Northwoods is the fruit of some kind of tin hat conspiracy theory?
Do you deny the reality of Operation Northwoods, which was a proposed false flag operation against the Cuban government that originated within the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962 with proposals which called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other U.S. government operatives to commit acts of terrorism against American civilians and military targets, blaming it on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba, with plans including the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities, the way you deny climate science?
Do you find it impossible to comprehend, Mike, that psychopaths and sociop0aths in our own government would contemplate allowing the murder of Americans for personal profit or gain?
Do you deny, Mike, that the intended purpose of Operation Northwoods was to create public support for a war against Cuba by blaming it for terrorist acts that would actually be perpetrated by the U.S. Government, to which end, Operation Northwoods proposals recommended hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government?
Do you deny that there is an Operation Northwoods plan which stated “The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere?”
Do you think, Mike, that that was the last time those Operation Northwoods plans saw the light of day?
Or like all things military, isn’t it more logical that they were merely put on a shelf somewhere, to await a more propitious moment, which to the military, and the Democrats if you study their history (think War with Mexico and Viet Nam), means a good moment in which to set in motion plans to get a couple of real good long term wars going, which means big military budgets and a lot of promotions just not available in a time of peace?
To close, Mike, as I keep telling you, people out here in rural America really like you as a character in this drama, with your catchy line above about “My wish, dear marsh hen is for you to be included in someone’s bag limit this year,” that is just so Mike, they say, and some have even taken to wearing t-shirts that say “I’m on Mike’s side,” but I got to be truthful, they are finding it appalling, reprehensible, deplorable, insufferable, intolerable, despicable, contemptible, unspeakable, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, frightful, obnoxious, which is to say, odious, Mike, how you keep slithering around in here, ducking what is really just a simple question, and they wanted me to tell you, but due to your emotionally overwrought state, to break it to you gently, which I sincerely hope I have done here, because let’s face it, I’m a compassionate person, so that it the way I would want it done.
Mike Kuzma, Jr. says
Does no one care enough to get this man the care he so desperately needs? His rambling, conspiratorial mumblings WERE a sign of mental instability back when America had less scummy liberal filth.
Paul Plante says
Ah, Mikey, poor Mikey, all this talk of yours about “rambling, conspiratorial mumblings,” which, incidentally, sounds like a line lifted from a recent HIP-HOP single making its way up the charts, and “scummy liberal filth,” which I think was a line popularized by Spiro “Spiggy” Agnew back in the Dick Nixxon days, has people wondering if you have become completely and totally unhinged and at the same time, slipped your moorings to reality as we normal people know it and experience it on a daily basis.
And I have to tell you, Mike, that with all the insults you have spewed in here against combat veterans, that has people wondering if you aren’t really Hillary Clinton in here under the alias of Mike Kuzma.
But I think that your inability to deal with reality and handle reality has driven you into a very small crack in the far recesses of your mind in your attempt, however futile it might in the end be, to the point that you are so far in there, nobody can even see you anymore, and they can barely hear your voice, so faint it has become.
So I see all these insults as a cry for help on your part, as your way of saying to the world, “leave me alone, leave me alone, I don’t want to know, I can’t handle it, AAARRRRRGH!”
And such it has become in here, where it is senseless anymore to even try to reason with you, and present you with facts, because that reasoning process is beyond you, and those facts are what you are trying to hide away from, so I am going to join that long list of people who have already written you off as someone who either can’t think, because you never learned how, or even had to know to do, because thinking was never something that was expected of you as a GOOD AMERICAN, or who refuses outright to think, which also makes you a GOOD AMERICAN, especially when it comes to this CRAPFEST we have been fed about what happened on 9-11-2001.
And let us face it and be candid with each other, Mike, in a world of cowards and liars and those who like you, are unable to think or unwilling to think, yours is by far the safer position to take.
As for me, Mike, as was made incandescently clear by none other than now-Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor when she was a circuit judge on the federal 2d Circuit Court of Appeals in New York City in 2005, for someone like myself who was diagnosed as a “man of high principles” by Dr. Lawrence C. Kolb, M.D., one of the top headshrinkers in this country at that time, and who was thus deemed to be too honest to work in government in this country, there is no place for people like me in your modern American society; to the contrary, I am an outcast, and thus, Mike, there is no help coming my way from a nation that does not want people like me who won’t tell lies for it to be a part of it.
And Mike, being the kind of introspective, meditative, thinking and intellectual person that I am, I have come to accept that in this lifetime, here in this version of America people like you created, while people like me were out in the mud, bleeding and dying to protect what we wrongly thought was “our nation,” when it never was, although truthfully, your “America” it seems more a Murka to me, as you have made very clear in your long lists of insults above, I will live my life as a man without a country, a “stateless” person.
Such it is, Mike, and I have thank you for once again making that reality quite clear to me – my unworthiness to be a citizen of the world you and those like you have claimed as their own.