Who knows why in the world 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse was patrolling the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin with an AR-15. Only bad things could occur, and they did. Why no one in his life prevented him from being there is still a mystery.
The narratives emerging are that Rittenhouse is a white supremacist, and , that he is a murderer. Neither appears to be the case.
The New York Times searched his social media account and found that “multiple posts on his social media accounts proclaim support for pro-police causes like the Blue Lives Matter movement and Humanize the Badge, a nonprofit that he ran a Facebook fund-raiser for on his 16th birthday.”
This does not support that Rittenhouse was involved with real white supremacy, as opposed to fake white supremacy that has been invented by the professional victim class of liberal America.
About murder, in every single video, Rittenhouse is clearly trying to extricate himself from danger brought on by a mob that appeared hell bent on doing him harm.
The resulting breakdown of events by the Times tells a different story.
Rittenhouse was seen on social media video throughout the night mostly staying in the area of a Kenosha car dealership — but not the same one where the first shooting occurred. The Times also noted that he was captured in multiple videos offering medical assistance to protesters who were affected by pepper spray that police used in the area. He was then seen passing out water bottles to police and talking to officers in the area. He left that dealership, and police prevented him from returning.
According to the Times, “Six minutes later footage shows Mr. Rittenhouse being chased by an unknown group of people into the parking lot of another dealership several bocks away.”
One of those people was the first person who was shot by Rittenhouse. That person has been identified by police as Joseph Rosenbaum, a white registered sex offender who was convicted of a sex crime with a minor and who was seen on video using the N-word near black militia members and taunting them to “shoot me, n***a.”
The Times then writes that as he was trying to escape, Rittenhouse tripped and fell to the ground, and then “fir[ed] four shots as three people rush[ed] toward him. One person appear[ed] to be hit in the chest[.]”
The person in question was caught on video trying to hit Rittenhouse with his skateboard. A Getty photographer happened to catch this attack literally as it happened.
The other individual who was shot by Rittenhouse was “carrying a handgun,” but omits that the gun was also loaded.
Attorney John Pierce of Pierce Bainbridge announced the firm will be representing Rittenhouse.
Paul Plante says
Who knows why in the world 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse was patrolling the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin with an AR-15?
This country has gone totally insane is one possible answer, perhaps the only answer, in the end.
Who the gods would destroy they first make crazy.
Sloppy Joe and KamalToe 2020 says
Him’s Woke!!
Paul Plante says
I’m woke to the fact that this now-sorry nation is real ******-up and is descending rapidly into chaos, anarchy and yes, civil war, and this time, as we speak, the Revolution is being televised.
Welcome to the new world order!
Sloppy Joe and KamalToe 2020 says
Dem’s Woke!
Paul Plante says
According to the news, the Kenosha, Wisconsin shooter, young Rittenhouse, was from Illinois.
Makes one curious as to why he brought his weapon with him so far from his home.
But when people are insane, as so many are in this pitiful country today, there are no rational explanations for their actions.
Ray Otton says
It was 20 miles, NOT so far from his home.
Get ALL the facts before commencing pontification, m’Kay?
30 paragraph response in 3…..2….1………….Go!
Paul Plante says
How about in reply, Raymond, I told you to go **** yourself?
Why was the kid outside his house ANY ******** PLACE that is public property with an AR-15?
Because small minds like yourself who themselves go out in public armed as you do, (God alone knows what you are so frightened of that you need the comfort of your gun 24/7/365, said as a twice-wounded combat infantryman) think it is MACHO?
Because it was his 2d Amendment right?
BULL**********!
And go pontificate the horse you rode in on, while you are at it, m’Kay?
Mary says
It was my understanding that this boy was out there protecting a family friend’s business from being looted/burned by rioters who were known to be in the area. So he had a personal connection to the location, apparently.
Paul Plante says
Well good for him then, Mary.
And God bless America that we have a jury system in this country that he can explain all that to, and if he is credible and they believe him, then my gosh, I bet they will acquit him and he will be a real American hero and life will go on and hey, maybe he’ll get a book deal and a movie offer out of it, and be real rich for the rest of his life!
Paul Plante says
I’m suspecting, Raymond, that I have pumped as many rounds downrange as you have, if not more, and I’m very curious as to what problems you think a gun or a rifle is a cure to.
Ray otton says
Wow, I am impressed.
The pontificating only took 9 paragraphs AND you manged to throw in a bunch of insults for extra measure.
I’m curious. I understand the pontificating, it’s baked into your DNA and your need for attention but what’s with the foul language and insults?
Is it simply because I pointed out that you prejudged the situation?
Or that you were flat out wrong when you talked of the young man traveling great distances?
Seriously, what is it that got your shorts in a knot that made you stoop to this juvenile level?
You have 21 paragraphs left. See if you can put together a cogent defense of your atrocious behavior in the allotted space.
Paul Plante says
Oh, poor Raymond, poor poor Raymond, I hurt the little baby’s feelings and made him feel bad about himself.
BOO HOO HOO!
And Raymond, it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation or discussion with you because you lack intelligence.
You moved out of New York and raised the IQ of that state by doing so, and, came to Virginia, ,and lowered the IQ of that state by doing so.
Good for you.
It is impossible to have any kind of conversation with you because you can’t read.
Paul Plante says @ August 30, 2020 at 5:38 pm
According to the news, the Kenosha, Wisconsin shooter, young Rittenhouse, was from Illinois.
Makes one curious as to why he brought his weapon with him so far from his home.
But when people are insane, as so many are in this pitiful country today, there are no rational explanations for their actions.
END QUOTES (for Raymond)
PONTIFICATE: express one’s opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.
That is you, Raymond.
OH!
Have a glorious day and watch you don’t catch COVID.
Paul Plante says
And dear Raymond, I don’t take direction from you because you are not my father or my boss or my leader, and I don’t answer to you, either, which means I don’t have to explain myself to you, or justify my existence to you.
Can you understand that, Raymond?
Or is it too complicated for you to comprehend?
Maybe you impress your neighbors with your hob-nailed jack boots and brown shirt and your gun, and have them bowing and scraping before you as a result, but not me, Raymond.
Just saying.
Paul Plante says
And Raymond, Americans do not like or tolerate being told what to think and what they can say, or not say, and in how many words by people such as yourself who seem to think that because you walk around in public with your gun, that you have some kind of right to order us around and control our thoughts and actions.
Just saying.
You want to be a fascist, Raymond, please take yourself to some ****hole where fascists like yourself are more welcome, m’Kay!
Ray Otton says
Invoking Godwin’s law means you lose, you sad old man.
Paul Plante says
YAWN!
Like I care, Raymond, what you say.
You’re like a broken record with the same old pathetic whiney BULL**** day after day and week after week and month after month and year after year.
And Raymond, if you find yourself getting insulted a lot, perhaps it is because that is the kind of “respect” that is owed to you.
Something to think about, anyway.
And watch you don’t shoot your balls off with that gun you are always carrying around with you because you are afraid of your shadow.
Publius Americanus says
“Americans do not like or tolerate being told what to think”
We also like exercising our God given rights, as enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
Have you read the 2nd of them?
Why am I supposed to worry about the feewings of nancy boys who are afwaid of tools?
Telling ME I cannot exercise my God given rights because it hurts your feewings is the very definition of FASCISM, Paul.
You know that, right?
Paul Plante says
I know a lot about guns, Publius, perhaps far more than you, having used them in combat to clear my front and suppress enemy fire, which is what combat infantrymen do in combat, and I actually was quite good at it.
And of course I know about the 2d Amendment, which states explicitly, as follows:
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Have you ever really read it?
And it hardly hurts my “feewings” if A-HOLES want to parade around with their guns.
So be my guest.
And if I find myself ever in need of one, tell you what, I’ll come find you and slap you up along side the head and kick you around as bit and then I’ll take your gun away from you and I’ll then be armed, just like the 2d Amendment says I have the right to be.
How’s that sound to ya, fellow?
Are you up for trying me out?
You gun fondlers think this is all a big game, and that your gun makes you a big man, but that is all BULL**** to people like me who aren’t afraid of you or your gun.
But go ahead and fondle your gun all you want, and if you think to point it in my direction, by the Jesus, you had better hope that I am already dead when the thought comes into your head, or you like Johnny Burgoyne will find oit in real time what reaping the whirlwind is really all about.
You see, Publius, I have already faced far more guns than you can imagine, and I know the sound the bullets make then they pass by your head, and I have “felt the breeze,” and I have been wounded, so I’m not afraid of taking a bullet, Publius.
How about you?
You bewenm there?
You done that?
Or are you just a ******* big-talking wannabe?
Ge your shooting war going, Publius, and let me know how it works for you and a piece of advice is don’t provoke people who have already been there and know that shooting at real people shooting back at you isn’t like it is at your shooting range shooting at paper targets.
Catch my drift?
Or do you need a kick in the head to get your brain working?
Paul Plante says
I was and remain quite happy to defend your God-given rights, Publius, as I understood them then, and as I understand them now:
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
– Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
Paul Plante says
And Raymond, thank you for confirming on the record that this young “hero” you are adulating was not from Kenosha, nor was he from Wisconsin, and that he had to transport himself and his weapon 20 miles so he could go to Kenosha to “uphold the rule of law” by killing people in a state where he was not resident.
I always wondered how rule of law was to be upheld, and thanks to your wisdom and that of Publius Americanus, I now know, so how about that, will you!
If you think somebody is breaking the law, get your gun and blow their **** away and you’ll be a hero for doing so, at least if you are 17, the average age of those fighting at Saratoga as the highly esteemed Publius informs us, even though that is pure BULL**** to those of us who know better.
Kind of gives license then, does it not, to each and every one of us to determine where there are lawless nests of vipers that need to be eliminated, and to then travel there, across state lines, to eliminate them in the name of upholding rule of law just like they did at Saratoga back when.
Thanks for making that incandescently clear!
Ray Otton says
Your rants on the CCM are getting ridiculous, lashing out at just about everyone, for reasons that are all over the map.
Pro-constitution but anti-gun being just the latest example of a long line of irrational, contradictory positions.
The last one claiming that a citizen not born here is somehow not the same as a natural born citizen.
The nastiness has gotten worse over time too.
Because of these increasingly bizarre statements and the declining comity towards you fellow man, it is obvious you are in the grips of dementia. From experience I know that some folks decline into a state of bliss as their dementia advances while other become unreasonably agitated.
You aren’t aware of it, of course, but you are in this second group. My hope is that a caring family member sees these posts and realizes it is time to step in.
I will refrain from any further interaction with you and it might be best if others of all political stripes did the same.
God Bless.
Paul Plante says
WHEW!
Finally!
Some much needed peace!
No more BULL**** from Raymond Otton!
Thank the good lord for that, say I!
Now, let us hope that Raymond stays true to his word.
And Raymond, watch you don’t shoot your balls off when you try to pull your pistola out from where you keep it concealed in your crotch!
Paul Plante says
From the oldest times it has been considered a privilege to BE PERMITTED to bear arms in the defense of one’s nation or people.
This privilege is afforded to only those who are individuals of good standing and good reputation.
– THE SOLDIER’S HANDBOOK
Sorin Varzaru says
The kid took his gun (illegally as he was a minor), crossed state lines and went looking for trouble. He ended up killing two people. I think the DA charging murder 1 was a mistake, but the kid should end up in prison for a long time.
Ray Otton says
The key facts are:
1 – He didn’t own the gun so he did not carry it illegally across state lines
2 – The altercation was started by the rioters
3 – He ran away rather than engage in the altercation
4 – Shots were fired at him
5 – He only fired at those who were immediately threatening his life, while avoiding shooting at those who were not
6 – ALL THREE of the men he put down had felony criminal records. (Which also tells you the make up of the ANTIFA squads, BTW)
It’s all on the videos, you just have to give up your preferred narrative when viewing them.
About the only thing they can hang on the kid is underage possession of a dangerous weapon, a class A misdemeanor in Wisconsin and THAT does not mean long prison term as you propose.
Stuart Bell says
HEAR!!!! HEAR!!!!!!!!
Sorin Varzaru says
Ray, he’ll probably get away with it from a legal perspective. He killed two people though. He’ll be the pariah of civilized society for the rest of his life. EVERY TIME he’ll sign his name people will look at him and think, he’s a killer. And you seem to think this is desireble. This is what you want for USA. People roaming the streets armed to the teeth shooting whoever appears to them as threatening. Like in… Somalia. If you get this America, you can keep it.
Ray Otton says
Sorry, Sorin, defund the police and this is what you get.
But let’s back up a minute and take a look at your MSNBC/CCN/ABC/CBS talking points.
Also, let’s not forget, I asked you to try to be objective and look at all the videos without invoking the narrative. You haven’t or you wouldn’t continue the blame game. With than in mind, I will expound on what we know the facts are:
1 – He wasn’t roaming the streets shooting whoever appears to threaten him. He was helping to guard an auto dealership whose owner asked Kyle’s organization for aid to keep the remainder of his car lot from being destroyed by ANTIFA thugs.
2 – He shot three guys who WERE threatening him. Not verbally mind you but with physical violence. All three of these miscreants had felony convictions for either assault or pedophilia. I dare say, if you found yourself in a situation where you life was under immediate threat, you too would resort to self defense and your so called higher principles would go out the window. Survival wins over ideology every time.
3 – You haven’t said so but the main stream media is portraying him as a white supremacist so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see you nodding along with this claim. Problem is, he has been recorded earlier in the evening helping an injured BLM member, using the 1st aid kit he had with him. If he was hell bent on killing people why did he have a 1st aid kit with him and willing to use it on someone he obviously disagreed with? In my estimation, his aim was a lot better than his white supremacy.
4 – You may look at him and think he is a killer, a pariah of society but there way more folks in the USA who see a young man willing and able to put his life on the line for his fellow man. Something the rioters are definitely not doing. I guess we’ll see in a couple of months how Americans feel about the dichotomy of law vs anarchy.
5 – Right now Somalia has less burning cities than the US does, so…………..
Sorin Varzaru says
A few random things that you either are unable to comprehend or you pretend you don’t.
The “refund the police” movement refers to directing some of the funds to social programs that are known to reduce crime and agencies that are better prepared to deal with situations that police in us is ill equipped to. Somehow most officers of the peace in UK manage to maintain the peace without carrying guns, despite the fact that uk has criminals, gangs, etc. Sure they have armed units that are called when its necessary, but the us culture where you enter into a conflict with your hand on the weapon tends to result in a lot more dead people then it does in other countries.
As far as the kid, I watched the videos. What do you think was the thought in his head when he picked up the weapon and headed to the dealership to “defend” it? What do you think were the rules of engagement then had in mind? Let’s say some rioters we’re getting ready to burn another car. Was he going to shoot them? He took his gun and put himself in a charged situation where his mere presence was escalating the conflict and his only way out was to shoot someone.
As far as “burning cities”, you seem to have no sense of scale. A few carefully edited frames on fox doesn’t mean the “city is burning”.
By the way, I don’t condone riots and looting. I’m perfectly fine with throwing the offenders in jail. I also don’t totally agree with some of the decisions the authorities in those cities made in how to deal with the situation. But I know one thing, armed vigilantes are most definitely not the answer.
Sorin Varzaru says
“It is impossible to discuss this issues with TWO demented contributors cluttering up the thread with their obvious insanity”
You are right, trying to reason with you and anyone else here is insane.
Stuart Bell says
Why not go home and fix whatever it is about your own homeland that made you leave it to begin with. We did not ask for, nor do we need your help here with any thing.
Go on Home! Your Momma’s calling You!!
Ray Otton says
The rot afflicting our culture is most apparent when when ideologically and physically demented people use arguments of moral equivalence.
There is no equivalence between angry leftist mobs actions, infected with evil ideas by Liberal elites and a 17 year old, civically minded patriotic kid trying to defend himself or Mr. Trump stating that he will eventually have to invoke the Insurrection Act to quell the destruction.
However foolish he may have been ( recall being 17 yourself?), the people trying to assault or kill Kyle were behaving as beasts and certainly not interested in any American civic virtues no matter how many Liberal claims of social justice.
Arguments of moral equivalence are what got us to the point where rioting, looting and the destruction of western civilization are considered legitimate “viewpoints”.
Whatever their faults, Mr. Trump and Kyle Rittenhouse are certainly not trying to destroy the most prosperous and humane civilization in history.
Leftist are.
And that is why you will see more Kyles going forward. Just remember, you did this to yourselves.
Paul Plante says
Dear Raymond, according to your own arguments, which indeed are very persuasive, so long as the ANTI-FA and the other savages and animals are American citizens, they have the same God-given inalienable right under the 2d Amendment to bear arms and use them as do you and young Kyle, n’est-ce pas?
Or is it a case of sauce for the goose versus sauce for the gander?
Are you trying to deny the left-wing scum the same God-given inalienable rights pursuant to the 2d Amendment that you say you have?
Didn’t they have the same right to be armed in Kenosha as your hero Kyle did?
Paul Plante says
Actually, I do remember being 17.
And I wasn’t stupid enough to aim a loaded weapon at someone outside my property lines, or inside my property lines, for that matter, because it was drilled into me from the time I was young that you don’t point a weapon at anyone, unless it is your intent to use it, and then you better have a damn good reason.
Nor was I out killing people with a deadly weapon, or any other way, for that matter.
And yes, Raymond, when I was 17, I did have a shotgun, except it wasn’t for shooting at people with, and yes, I knew the difference.
Of course, back then, 17 year olds had a good deal more maturity than do the breed today, and discipline.
But since your hero Kyle has now done the deed, guess what, Raymond, he now owns the consequences.
And it is going to be interesting to see how his lawyer tries to spin things here.
Maybe he will be able to have it established as a new legal precedent here in America that the right to self-defense extends way beyond not only your property, but your state, as well, so that at any time, any of us can then go to some other city and provoke a confrontation so we can blow the **** out of some people we don’t even know, with impunity.
Then the fun will begin, alright.
Paul Plante says
A car plowed through a group of demonstrators at a New York City protest for Daniel Prude, a Black man killed in police custody in Rochester, N.Y.
https://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-car-plowing-protesters-180501097.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_15
Sounds like another Kyle just came forward here to me to take the law into his own hands.
Let the games begin as America descends down into chaos, anarchy and just plain lawlessness!
Oh, yeah, let’s not forget ignorance and stupidity.
Welcome to the New World Order!
And didn’t somebody once say that violence begits violence?
Or is that just something I made up in my “dementia?”
On another note, I think a lot of older people actively seek the peace and quiet of dementia so they don’t have to know all this ******* BULL**** is going down around them, and anymore, who can blame them.
Sorin Varzaru says
“We did not ask for, nor do we need your help here with any thing.”
Actually, you did. Your crappy education system produces so few competent software engineers that US companies NEED to import them. So, I was asked to come, I was offered an attractive salary, accomodations, airfare, benefits and I decided to come. Nothing changed 23 years later. US still doesn’t produce enough competent engineers.
And Stuart, there is no way to describe how little I care about how you or anyone else who shares your political views feels about me being here (in Cape Charles or US). But, look, if you manage to turn US into a country you want it to be, you win. I’ll move to Europe. Mongolia once ruled the world. US is aggressively trying to follow in it’s footsteps.
Paul Plante says
That is what jury trials are for, Sorin.
The kid gets to tell the jury what he was doing there, what purpose his “organization” serves, why his “organization” was called out, on what authority they were acting, what his thoughts were, why he did what he did, and that is that.
In this country, it is called the legal process.
And there is such a thing as justifiable homicide, which is the killing of a person in circumstances which allow the act to be regarded in law as without criminal guilt, the key to which legal defense is that it was reasonable for the subject to believe that there was an imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent by the deceased when he or she committed the homicide.
Defense Attorney Otton makes a good case for his client in that regard, and if the jury thinks he acted in self-defense and his actions were justified, and if he can show how his life was in danger to the point of the only alternative was to kill people, then that will be that – he’ll not only walk free, but will become an American Hero in the process, which he obviously already is, and he’ll get a good book deal and a movie where he will be played by Brad Pitt or Keanu Reeves and end up a rich man as a result.
So you have to face up to it, Sorin, you moved yourself to a violent country that is rapidly descending down into a civil war for what will be the third time, now, so this is going to be the new normal, people roaming around with guns and blowing each other away, which takes us right back to the beginning days of this nation when it was neighbor against neighbor and even family member against family member.
Consider this bit of our bloody history taken from “Chapman’s History of Wyoming” (located 5 miles north of Wilkes-Barre along the Susquehanna River), to wit:
On the 4th day of July, 1778, the beautiful valley of Wyoming in Pennsylvania, fell a prey to the savage cupidity of the British, Tory and Indian forces under Col. John Butler; and its inhabitants were either killed, carried into captivity, or escaped by a most appalling flight.
The poem entitled “Gertrude of Wyoming,” from the pen of the English poet Campbell – founded upon the tragedies of that massacre – is doubtless familiar to most of my readers.
Many of the most unfeeling and inhuman acts of cruelty committed on the fleeing inhabitants and solders of this ill-fated place, were committed by tories.
On this occasion, a tory found a brother secreted, who had been an American militiaman, but had fled, abandoning his gun.
On recognizing his brother, the tory said to him, “So it is you, is it?”
The unarmed man approached his kinsman, fell upon his knees and besought him to spare his life; promising, if he would, to live with him and become his servant.
“All this is mighty fine,” replied the human fiend, “but you are a damned rebel!”
At the close of this sentence, he leveled his gun and sent the death-telling ball through his body.
end quote
That is how we started, Sorin, and there is where we are headed back to, never really having gotten far from that in the interim.
My advice is better get used to it; maybe buy yourself a brace of pistolas, or get yourself an AR-15, or an AK-47 so you’ll be able to shoot back when you get shot at.
And to put this into perspective for you, this love of bloodshed in this country, let’s go back to ancient Rome for a moment, where we have as follows:
The Spectacle of Bloodshed in Roman Society
Lauren Cowles
“The death of humans usually constitutes a spectacle, a disturbing sight which is awful in both senses of the word, an eerie yet intriguing phenomenon demanding acknowledgement and attention.”
Despite the death that surrounded their lives, either from battle or as part of religious sacrifices, ancient Romans also viewed the shedding of human blood as entertainment.
Spectacles of death were not only relatively normal events in ancient Rome, but were looked forward to by both the peasant and aristocratic classes and men and women alike.
Death as sport was a common occurrence and in fact, Romans of all classes attended, accepted, and enjoyed the games.
end quotes
Substitute the word “Americans” for the word “Romans” and you will see exactly where it is we are now.
Said another way, if you think you can now change anything with your words, you are dreaming and clearly wasting your breath.
Get your guns, take some lessons from Mr. Otton on how to use them, and you’ll do just fine is my thought.
Sorin Varzaru says
“Get your guns, take some lessons from Mr. Otton on how to use them, and you’ll do just fine is my thought.”
If if comes to that I will do something that will make Ray happy. I’ll move to Europe. I already have a EU passport that allows me to live and work anywhere in the EU. I can shoot, I just don’t want to live in a country where I have to.
Paul Plante says
Me, too!
Had enough of that BULL**** already thanks to Democrat Lyndon Baines Johnson (all wars in this country are started by Democrats, by the way, including this incipient civil war) to last me the rest of this lifetime.
Paul Plante says
When it comes to guns in this country, Sorin, there is no possible way that you can have any kind of rational discussion with the likes of gun fondlers like Raymond Otton, and you are wasting your breath even trying.
For proof of that, we need go no farther than his post Ray Otton says @ September 2, 2020 at 12:48 pm, where we have as follows:
Your rants on the CCM are getting ridiculous, lashing out at just about everyone, for reasons that are all over the map.
Pro-constitution but anti-gun being just the latest example of a long line of irrational, contradictory positions.
end quotes
Now, Sorin, just stare for a bit at that second sentence above here, and you will see what I am talking about.
Since I am a veteran who enlisted, a voluntary act on my part to defend this nation and its Constitution, which in turn makes me a member of a class of people that our dear Raymond looks down on, which is interesting in and of itself, what he has against veterans, it would logically that I swore an oath to defend that very same Constitution which in his own rant Raymond correctly states I am for, which is logical given the following:
The Oath of enlistment is something that every service member must promise and adhere to for his/her entire military career.
From the Oath, you can see that you will be defending the Constitution – not a person.
Discipline and accepting orders is sworn to.
Finally, you vow to face the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) should any disputes arise.
The Oath of Enlistment for enlisted., which I swore, is as follows:): “I, Paul Plante, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
So of course I am pro-Constitution, which is really a very astute observation by Raymond, when you come right down to it.
But what is this business about “anti-gun?”
Where, besides from out of his ***, does Raymond come up with that label?
Since I was actually in a war in the military as a combat infantryman, we can see just how stupid Raymonds charge is as follows:
What does an infantryman do?
Members of the infantry are ground troops that engage with the enemy in close-range combat.
They operate weapons and equipment to engage and destroy enemy ground forces.
end quotes
Now, as a combat infantryman, I personally have two Purple Hearts and a Silver Star, to wit:
There are several combat decorations a military member can earn through extraordinary service.
The Silver Star, the third-highest of these honors, is presented to those who deserve to be recognized for gallantry in action while engaged in action against an enemy of the United States and requires service above and beyond the call of duty.
So you don’t get one, Sorin, for being good at tripping the light fantastic in some fancy ball-room somewhere, or running your mouth about all your guns down at the local bar.
You get one for being not only in the SHIT, but by being out front where the real heat of battle is, not huddled and cowering somewhere in the rear, or over here with the women and children.
So we can see exactly how stupid and irrational that statement of Raymond’s is that I am “anti-gun,” because when I got the Silver Star, it wasn’t for waving a fountain pen at somebody.
And there is why you can’t expect to have any kind of rational discussion with Raymond about “guns,” because our Raymond himself is not rational – he is very emotional when it comes to guns, as we can see from this very post of his.
If I am “anti” anything about guns, and let me tell you, Sorin, and I am sure other veterans will back this up, especially the Marines, it is the infantryman himself who is the real weapon, and the “gun” is simply one of the tools the infantryman has available, which is why there is such a term in the military as “hand-to-hand” combat, as opposed to combat with what are called “ranged weapons,” including the infantry tool called a rifle (in the military, a gun is your pecker), it is putting guns in the hands of every whack-job there is in America, on some stupid belief that the 2d Amendment means even the insane have the right to own and carry a gun around in public.
But that dam broke a long time ago, and now, this nation is flooded with guns, and ******* morons and criminals carrying them.
So there we are.
End of story!
Over and out!
Sorin Varzaru says
“But that dam broke a long time ago, and now, this nation is flooded with guns, and ******* morons and criminals carrying them.”
Damn, never thought I’ll ever agree with your posts. The world is coming to an end
…
Paul Plante says
The world as we once knew it, anyway, those of us who are old enough to remember when it was markedly different and much more peaceful.
Ray Otton says
It is impossible to discuss this issues with TWO demented contributors cluttering up the thread with their obvious insanity.
For the type of dementia exhibited by the aged contributor in here, remember, the experts recommend simply agreeing with those suffering from this aggressive type of dementia. Offer no counter to their invented world, for there is no point. They are too far gone for rational discussion.
For the ideologically demented contributor it’s best to just shake your head and walk away, for they too are beyond hope.
Only difference is, you don’t have to worry about a crappy diaper with the ideological sufferer.
Hopefully.
Paul Plante says
You’re a real trip, Raymond, and there is another criminal act on your part, pretending you are a psychiatrist making diagnoses of mental health issues via the internet.
How to go, Raymond.
And seriously watch when you pull out your gun that you don’t shoot your balls off with it.
If you have any.
Paul Plante says
And please pardon our dear Raymond, people – he simply cannot help himself here.
He has to resort to insults and just plain BULL**** because he has nothing cogent to say.
Maybe say a few prayers for him, if you think of it and have some free time on your hands to do so.
Hopefully, they will help.
Paul Plante says
And this is for you to mull over, Sorin, as it quite adequately explains where we are now in this sick nation as armed savages and animals run free and burn, loot and destroy our land, which interestingly places me over in the camp of Raymond Otton.
Can you logically and rationally dispute any of this:
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.”
“The balance of power is the scale of peace.”
“The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside.”
“And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up.”
“Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong.”
“The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
– Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
Emily Dickenson says
As usual, Sorin the anti-American, sides with the criminals. Why does anyone even bother responding to him anymore? YAWN.
Stuart Bell says
I wish he would go back home.
I can remember a time, on The Shore, when people would have made him feel so uncomfortable that he would have been happy to move and quickly. That was just a few years ago, in the early Eighties.
Paul Plante says
“Don’t Take Your Guns to Town”
Johnny Cash
Produced by Al Quaglieri & Don Law
The Fabulous Johnny Cash
A young cowboy named Billy Joe grew restless on the farm
A boy filled with wonderlust who really meant no harm
He changed his clothes and shined his boots
And combed his dark hair down
And his mother cried as he walked out
Don’t take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don’t take your guns to town
He laughed and kissed his mom
And said your Billy Joe’s a man
I can shoot as quick and straight as anybody can
But I wouldn’t shoot without a cause
I’d gun nobody down
But she cried again as he rode away
Don’t take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don’t take your guns to town
He sang a song as on he rode
His guns hung at his hips
He rode into a cattle town
A smile upon his lips
He stopped and walked into a bar
And laid his money down
But his mother’s words echoed again
Don’t take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don’t take your guns to town
He drank his first strong liquor then to calm his shaking hand
And tried to tell himself at last he had become a man
A dusty cowpoke at his side began to laugh him down
And he heard again his mothers words
Don’t take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don’t take your guns to town
Filled with rage then
Billy Joe reached for his gun to draw
But the stranger drew his gun and fired
Before he even saw
As Billy Joe fell to the floor
The crowd all gathered around
And wondered at his final words
Don’t take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don’t take your guns to town
Ray Otton says
“From the oldest times it has been considered a privilege to BE PERMITTED to bear arms in the defense of one’s nation or people.
This privilege is afforded to only those who are individuals of good standing and good reputation.”
First sign of dementia is the loss of memory and sadly this poster has now forgotten the US Constitution enumerates a number of inalienable rights. Meaning, the government does not grant us permissions or bestow privileges.
Dan Quayle – “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.”
end quotes.
Paul Plante says
For the record, the Soldier’s Handbook is put out by the United States Government, Headquarters, Department of the Army.
Paul Plante says
Personally, I find it very discomforting that there are apparently unstable people like Raymond Otton out there in civilized society wandering around with a loaded gun on their person.
What on earth has him so scared, one must wonder, that he can’t go anywhere without a loaded gun on his person?
Is the gun his personal comfort blanket?
Does the gun make him feel like a big man?
I’m out in society all the time, and never yet have I had the need to carry a gun or use a gun.
So there is a real conundrum, alright.
Paul Plante says
And Raymond, watch your back because practicing psychiatry in the Commonwealth of Virginia without proper credentials to do so, along with a license, and that includes the tele-medicine you are openly practicing in here, is a crime.
Paul Plante says
And the United States Constitution does not “enumerate a number of inalienable rights.”
Where you get that bizarre idea from, God alone knows.
The United States Constitution defines our Republican frame of government.
Read the Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
end quotes
Not a single word in there about any “inalienable rights,” not a one.
And the 2d Amendment is not the Constitution, it is an amendment to the Constitution, and it clearly states thusly: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
You want to warp, twist and pervert that meaning to imply that every ******* moron, idiot, lunatic, and animal and savage here in the United States of America has a God-given inalienable right has some kind of right to possess a deadly weapon, and guess what, Raymond, your argument won out.
So much then, as we are clearly seeing in this thread, for establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, and promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.
Your stupid reading of the 2d Amendment has made a mockery of the Preamble.
So welcome to Raymond’s world, everyone!
The new world order is here.
As to the 2d Amendment, the Supreme Court has held that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm and to use that weapon for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
Focus on the words “traditionally lawful purposes.”
Furthermore, the Court reasoned that this right is fundamental to the nation’s scheme of ordered liberty, given that self-defense was a basic right recognized by many legal systems from ancient times to the present, and in its 2008 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, the Court held that individual self-defense was “the central component” of the Second Amendment right, and a survey of the contemporaneous history also demonstrated clearly that the Fourteenth Amendment’s Framers and ratifiers counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to the Nation’s system of ordered liberty.
Where is “ordered liberty” to be found in this sick and divided nation today?
Where is domestic tranquillity to be found in this warped and twisted and dying nation?
Oh, right – in Kenosha, pouring forth from the muzzle of a gun.
In retrospect, having to do it all over again, I would decide this nation and the people in it are no longer worth fighting for, bleeding for, or dying for, and I would have simply stayed home and waited for the Viet Cong to show up at my front door, and then I would have dealt with them, but not before.
And if they got to you first, Raymond, oh well – your tough luck, but hey, you got a gun, so you probably could have held them off all by yourself, and then domestic tranquillity would have reigned throughout the land once more.
But domestic tranquillility in this pitiful land is now a pipe dream, but gun maker stocks are now a hot commodity on the stock market, so maybe I’ll get me some and become a millionaire.
Paul Plante says
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
– Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
Publius Americanus says
First time for everything, but here is a reply to both Paul and Sorin.
Would you ask the same thing Paul, to a soldier at the battle of Saratoga; average age 17?
Looking for trouble is what the fascist rioting leftist vermin were there for, Sorin. He went to defend the exact same thing that was being fought for at the….
Battle of Saratoga. The rule of law, not the rule of men.
I kinda thought one of you understood that, and one of you was Sorin.
Paul Plante says
You need to check your history better, Publius, as to what the fight at Saratoga was really all about:
Jane McCrea, North American colonist
WRITTEN BY The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica
Last Updated: Jul 23, 2020
Jane McCrea, (born c. 1752, Bedminster [now Lamington], N.J. [U.S.]—died July 27, 1777, Fort Edward, N.Y., U.S.),
American colonial figure whose death aroused anti-British feeling and helped sway opinion and stir action in the colonies toward independence.
McCrea, a tall, attractive woman, was courted by David Jones.
In 1776 Jones was one of several Tories in the area to join the British army.
In the summer of 1777 the approach of a large British force under General John Burgoyne down Lake Champlain and the Hudson River valley and the consequent abandonment of Fort Ticonderoga and Fort Edward by colonial defenders caused a panic among the remaining settlers, who quickly began to evacuate southward.
McCrea declined to leave, however, because she had received a letter from Jones, by then a lieutenant with Burgoyne, saying that he hoped soon to see her at Fort Edward.
Later legend has it that they were to be married at that time.
On the morning of July 27, 1777, McCrea visited a friend, Sarah McNeil, who was preparing to leave Fort Edward for safety.
About noon the two women were captured by some Native American scouts whom Burgoyne had employed as an advance force.
McNeil was delivered safely to British hands, but McCrea was later discovered dead, several bullet wounds in her body, and scalped.
Her captors claimed she had been killed by a stray bullet from a colonial detachment, but it was generally accepted that one of the scouts had killed her.
The murder and scalping sent a shock of horror through the colonies; it was even felt in England, where in the House of Commons Edmund Burke denounced the use of Indian allies.
In America the deed galvanized patriotic sentiment, swung waverers against the British, and encouraged a tide of enlistments that helped end Burgoyne’s invasion three months later.
end quotes
Are the savages scalping women in Kenosha now?
Paul Plante says
If I am not mistaken, Publius Americanus, the Battle of Saratoga, fought in 1777, was fought by American colonists who were called Whigs against an INVADING ARMY of British Regulars, Tories and SAVAGE INDIANS (scalpers).
What I would have told some 17 year old there is “aim low,” and try to shoot the officers and sergeants.
Did I miss something here?
Was there another British army invading Kenosha?
ARE WE NOW AT WAR?
I’m obviously missing something here, because I hadn’t heard that, but then, I have stopped listening to the news because it is so ******* stupid, so it is possible I missed the declaration of war.
When was it?
As to people carrying guns in public in 1777 when Burgoyne was coming south from out of Canada and St. Leger was coming east through the Mohawk Valley, in Schoharie, July 7th, 1777, in Committee Chamber first Resolved, that all the persons between the ages or sixteen and fifty years, from the dwelling house of Christian Shaffer and to northward in Schoharie, are to bring their arms and accoutrements when they come to the meeting at either of the two churches in Fountain Town and Foxes Town, 7 on Sunday or any other day when kept; and if any of them shall neglect in bringing their arms and accoutrements to either of the churches, shall forfeit and pay the sum of three shillings, New York currency, into the hands of Mr. Johannes Ball, for the use of paying the cost for the district of Schoharie; or if any person shall not pay the said sum as aforesaid, it shall be lawful for Mr. Johannes Ball to give a warrant directed to a sergeant or corporal, and levy the same on the offender’s goods and chattels, and also the costs thereof.
“And the persons inhabiting from the dwelling of Baltus Krysler to the said Christian Shaffer, are to bring their arms, &c. to the church in Weiser’s Town, as they are ordered to [in] Foxes Town; and if neglected to pay the same to Mr. Johannes Becker, and be put in execution by him as ordered by Mr. Ball aforesaid.”
“And persons southward from Baltus Krysler’s are to be armed when [they] come to any meeting that may be kept in Brakabeen, and if neglected, to pay the fines to Mr. William Zimmer, and to be put by him in execution as beforementioned, and for the use as aforesaid.”
“N. B. Their resolve in Fountain Town Church is to be paid to Mr. Johannes Lawyer, and to be put by him in execution as within mentioned, and for the use as aforesaid; and George Warner is appointed to see [that] the inhabitants of Cobelskill bring their arms when [they] come to meeting there, and put this resolve in execution as within mentioned, and for the use aforesaid.”
“Secondly, Resolved, that four watches are to be kept in Schoharie every night from this time constant: the first is to be kept at the dwelling house of Capt. George Mann, and under his command, and in his absence the next in command; the inhabitants from Christian Shaffer’s dwelling house and to northward, are to be under Capt. Mann’s command for the watch to consist of eight men.”
“The second is to be kept at the dwelling house of Mr. Hendrick P. Becker, and under the command of Capt. George Richtmyer, and in his absence the next officer in command: the inhabitants from Hendrick Tansen’s house and so northward to Christian Shaffer’s, are under the command of this second watch, and to consist of six men.”
“The third is to be kept at the dwelling house of Mr. Johannes Feak, and under the command of Lieut. Martynus Van Slyck, and in his absence the next officer in command; the inhabitants from Baltus Krysler’s dwelling house and so northward to Hendrick Tanse’s are under the command of this third watch, and to consist of six men.”
“And the fourth is to be kept by the inhabitants from Baltus Krysler’s and so southward, at the dwelling house of Mr. Hendrick Hager under the command of Capt. Jacob Hager, in his absence the next officer in command; and this watch is to consist of six men.”
“Every person or persons neglecting to serve on such or either of such watches aforementioned, shall for every neglect pay and forfeit the sum of twelve shillings for the use of the district of Schoharie.”
end quotes
So, are you saying then that this 17-year old whack job was called out on lawful militia duty to go to Kenosha to kill invading British troops and SAVAGE INDIANS?
Or can we all now arm ourselves and start blowing away anybody we think is an A-HOLE?
Paul Plante says
Same to you, Publius!
Be well!
Paul Plante says
Welcome “home,” Publius, and thanks for your service because it sounds like you are a veteran, a hated class among many in this country, including some in here!
And please, don’t be a binary thinker like so many in here, accusing me of being for the lawless savages in Kenosha or anywhere else, for that matter, because I am not cheering some 17-year old kid who personally, using my RIGHT TO HOLD MY OWN OPINION, a RIGHT as dear or more than the 2d Amendment, I think is an A-HOLE!
The side I am on is called LAW and ORDER.
As I understand the concept, and this is just me, of course, while the 2d Amendment may give me the right to bear arms, the LAW dictates when the arms may be discharged and at whom.
And as I interpret that, which again is my RIGHT as a free American citizen, I don’t have any right whatsoever to take my gun to some town where I don’t live and have no property to defend to blow away people I don’t like, just because I don’t like them.
If I have that wrong, please enlighten me.
You talk of sacrifices made for freedom as if this kid could in any possible way be compared to those who were fighting for freedom when a tyrant English king was bent on their elimination and destruction, which was exactly the case at Saratoga, if anyone bothers to read the proclamation of Burgoyne from the mouth of the Bouquet River on Lake Champlain as hem was making his way south to Albany.
In my estimation, knowing that history quite well, if anyone bother to read my thread on the Fourth of July, there is no comparison whatsoever.
As to the A-HOLES in Kenosha, send in a couple of troops of Bradley fighting vehicles and let them end the violence, real quick.
Or do like LBJ did with the Detroit riots and send in the 82d Airborne with live ammo and shoot-to-kill orders.
My thoughts, anyway.
Publius Americanus says
Wayne, please tell Paul I did not serve, respect the hell outa those who did -dad and uncles included- but my scars and lack of fear comes from a truly misspent youth in NYC and Trenton in the mid and late 70’s when it was bad.
I will not take the nod for service, oh no. That valor belongs to them, not me.
No need to post the comment, just shoot him that in an email please.
Paul Plante says
Your candor is appreciated, Publius!
And have a great day!
And when the deal goes down, if it does, it’s your side I will be on, not the side of the anarchists!
Todd Holden says
Democrats are going to dislike the outcome of the next civil war that they start even more than they disliked the results of the last civil war that the Democrats started.
TRUMP 2020!
Paul Plante says
A big AMEN!
Paul Plante says
For the record, my AMEN was to the first part of Todd’s post, that the Democrats are going to dislike the outcome of the next civil war that they are now starting, or have started, even more than they disliked the results of the last civil war that the Democrats started.
I’m not going to vote for Trump, who like many other liberals and progressives in this country thinks people like myself who are veterans are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers,’ and I’m sure as hell not going to vote for “Corn Pop” Biden, who is a blithering idiot, so maybe for the first time in many, many years, I’ll sit this one out.
Sorin Varzaru says
How fitting that you are supporting enthusiasticly a crude, self centered, xenofobic, racistst, autocract wannabe. Guns make you feel strong and important, eh? Lacking any other marketable skills? You’d rather turn this country into a war zone so you can fell “like a man” killing the people you hate? Like your 17 yo protegee?
well, I’ve seen your other posts. This surprises me none.
Todd Holden says
Bless Your little Heart !
Sloppy Joe and KamalToe 2020 says
Him’s is Woke !
Emily Dickenson says
Dear God!! I enjoy these comments for the most part- but fir the love of all that’s holy / Paul Plante, there’s a saying that goes something like this : brevity is the soul of wit. Take the hint. It takes so long to scroll past your 5 comments to rebut one point….
Paul Plante says
Your mind is quite obviously getting soft and flabby, Emily, perhaps like the rest of your person.
EXERT YOURSELF!
I’m not going to TWITTER-IZE myself because your reading comprehension is taxed by more than two or three words in a row.
And seriously, how much muscle power does it take to scroll down past any threads?
If you are now so puny weak you can’t scroll, you’re pathetic.
MJM says
Like so many of the other problems in America, and around the world, difficulties like this trace back to the fact that “It’s The Economy Stupid”.
Kenosha Wisconsin. A rather stable, mostly blue collar and hard working town for a long time. 2 major industries, centered around steel, built the community. Folks used to say 1/2 the town worked for Snap-On Tools within their factory and their World Headquarters there, and the other 1/2 working at The Chrysler plant. Anybody remember the name Lee Iacocca ? Well back in the late 80’s he announce the closure of The Chrysler manufacturing plant there, and 1/2 the lights in town went out. So many cars were allowed into the country from overseas that eventually that competition ate up those Chrysler jobs. Lots of people ran away, relocated elsewhere, and found jobs. Others stayed and dealt with the local recession/depression.
Here’s a perspective for you. Is anybody reading the signs and learning the lessons of history ? It’s 30 years later. The next generation has grown up and some of them are stuck in the cycle of depression and poverty. They are desperate to find something better. They see what the potential is that exists in this country, and they are more than frustrated. Of course the parents want better for their kids and the kids want to be kids and rebel. So we have a situation that is ripe for unrest.
No one has brought better jobs here. We can feel some of the same frustration s well.
Personally, I believe I see the history and reason for the situation, and why it is the exact same situation in the other parts of our country where the middle class has taken gut shot after gut shot and the jobs have been sold overseas and lost to mechanization. They may not have always been the best jobs America has, but they were jobs that could help a family work together and find their own way to help each other do better, and have more self respect for the accomplishments they achieve. What politicians have written laws that brought more jobs and pride to the middle class ?
Is it odd that some of the the current unrest in the streets and states seem to be in “swing states” where there has been so much loss of jobs ? Sure there is unrest elsewhere, but I think I’ve made my point.
The future is murky and for sure hard to predict. The past is much clearer. I think it points out we can do better when we decide not to continue with repeating the same mistakes and help people to help themselves. It’s the best answer. Not perfect, but the best