A resolution that would have named Mike Sterling official town council for the purpose of obtaining an opinion from the State Attorney General on whether the WWI plaque in the library could be moved failed unanimously. The plaque, which lists citizens of Northampton that died in the Great War, has been hung in the library for 92 years. Members of the library board took offense to the plaque because the soldier’s names are broken out by “white” and “colored”. The resolution would have meant that taxpayers would have had to fund the legal fees.
A disturbing part of Sterling’s request was whether the plaque could be covered by a “shroud”:
If the WWI Memorial Plaque is subject to the protections of Virginia Code § 15.2- 1812, whether the Town may place a cover or shroud over it and only display the WWI Memorial Plaque upon request.
Councilman Steve Bennett said that he found the whole thing, especially the language about the shroud, offensive. “These men made the ultimate sacrifice, and the idea that we would remove or cover their names is repulsive…Why are we the ones having to do this? The burden of proof should be on the Library Board, not us. Let them pay for it.”
Town Manager DiRe noted that the offended members of the Library Board have threatened legal action if the plaque was not removed. “Good. Let them,” was Bennett’s response.
Bennett offered an alternative solution, to pay to have the plaque recast, listing the names of the fallen in alphabetical order.
Jack Trump says
What’s the opinion of the HDRB ? What’s the opinion of the Historical Society ? My opinion is that the learned leaders of the library originally accepted this monument. I would think/hope that the current learned leaders there now could/would continue to honor the legacy of their predecessors and this monument by accepting the original decision by recognizing and accepting the spirit of the original times. Isn’t that what history does ? In the meantime, if history is no longer acceptable, then the new expense needs to be (in my opinion) the responsibility of the ones driving/forcing the change. Passing that buck off to anyone else would certainly an irresponsible decision. You want to upgrade your house ? Pay for it.
Allan Burns says
This is not a decision for the Town Council, but of the Library Board. In addition, I am not in favor of spending taxpayers’ money in attempts to rewrite history. History is a record of what actually occurred, and the way in which it is recorded reflects the standards of that day. Applying today’s standards to decisions of many years ago which were made in the context of that society is totally inappropriate. It eliminates the recognition of how far we have come in our relationships with one another as individuals, and not by racial or other classifications. We have a distance to go, but let us recognize progress. We should celebrate that progress and look to further travel along that road, and not take offense at the documentation of the past. I have several anecdotal events on this topic in my own journey that have affected me, so I have arrived at this position with some personal involvement. I am a history buff, and view with concern messing with the records of what happened as documented by the standards of that day.
Paul Plante says
How very silly and stupid all the way around!
If these people on the library board knew anything about history, and my goodness, being associated with a library, you would think they would be, the colored dudes went to France early on to assist the failing French because the colored dudes had been fighting as units in the west and down in Mexico during the Punitive Expedition, this at a time when America really did not have a military with which to fight a war.
These allegedly “woke” people should do themselves a favor to wake themselves all the rest of the way up by reading the article “FIGHTING FOR RESPECT: African-American Soldiers in WWI” by Jami L. Bryan on January 20, 2015 to see things from the perspective of those colored dudes whose names are on that plaque which correctly identifies them as what they were, which is black Americans seeking the respect the military service once rendered one, back before this time we are now in, to wit:
As the people of the United States watched World War I ignite across Europe, African American citizens saw an opportunity to win the respect of their white neighbors.
America was a segregated society and African Americans were considered, at best, second class citizens.
Yet despite that, there were many African American men willing to serve in the nation’s military, but even as it became apparent that the United States would enter the war in Europe, blacks were still being turned away from military service.
When the United States declared war against Germany in April of 1917, War Department planners quickly realized that the standing Army of 126,000 men would not be enough to ensure victory overseas.
The standard volunteer system proved to be inadequate in raising an Army, so on 18 May 1917 Congress passed the Selective Service Act requiring all male citizens between the ages of 21 and 31 to register for the draft.
Even before the act was passed, African American males from all over the country eagerly joined the war effort.
They viewed the conflict as an opportunity to prove their loyalty, patriotism, and worthiness for equal treatment in the United States.
end quotes
Contrary to these quaking “WOKE” folks on the library board, that is how I see those colored names on that plaque – people who joined the military as an opportunity to prove their loyalty, patriotism, and worthiness for equal treatment in the United States, and it is so sad and unfortunate that this, library board crowd is unable to afford those names of those colored soldiers the respect they deserve.
Which seems to prove that being woke really does do much to wake a person up to reality and that is a fact.
Bill Neville says
I think the council made a good decision. I personally believe that when the plaque was made those who commissioned it in no way intended to be offensive but rather to honor those who died serving their country in The Great War.
In spite of the fact that it offends some ,who did not live in that time period, I believe the original ,if it is removed, should be preserved and archived ( not necessarily displayed) at the library or Cape Charles Museum where it would be available to be viewed by whoever wished to see a real part of our town’s history. I am a member of the Cape Charles Historical Society board and while I can’t speak for the entire board, I perrsonally would vote to accept it
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
In my genealogical line is the name George Giddings. This George may be a relative of mine. I wish I had more information on him. As one who had a Political Science and History Major in college, I would support leaving it as it is. I am an African American.
Historically, we were called Colored at that time. Leaving this designation would educate all readers that our society was not perfect. I am pleased that their names were not swept under the rug and ignored the way so much of African American involvement in the building of this nation has been.
Does the Historical society have information about the people who are named on that plaque. Who was George’s family?
Paul Plante says
Thank you for expressing that opinion and for giving an educated reason to support that opinion based on history as it was at that time, whether people today like that or not.
That is truly how people do become more educated, hearing from voices like your on the matter.
The service in WWI those “colored” provided that war effort should not be covered with a shroud.
Rather, it should be highlighted to young children today so they know what that service meant and hopefully, they will learn something of humanity in studying that history which ties in to the history of Cape Charles.
As to additional information, you might try the Old Military and Civil Branch (NWCTB), 700 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20408-0001, or the National Personnel Records Center (Military Personnel Records), 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, Missouri 63132, where you would need an NATF Form when requesting a search for personnel records in this repository along with the complete name of the serviceman, branch of service, and approximate dates of service.
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Thank you. I do not have dates of birth or dates of military service for the George Giddings on this plaque. Neither do I have the branch of service for him. This is somewhat a common name. I was hoping to get this basic bibliographic information from the library where the plaque is hanging. They must have that since they are displaying these names. Who do I contact?
Paul Plante says
You don’t need the date of birth, and his unit would have been the Army, and his dates of service would essentially be 1917-1918.
A Friend says
Ms.Giddings,
According to the Virginia Historical Society, George Giddings died from disease on November 12, 1918 at Waynesville, South Carolina. He is listed as being from Eastville, Virginia. As vaccines had not been developed, most of the soldiers who died in WWI did not see action in the war.
Only three people from the Cape Charles area were killed in action. They were Simon Benjamin, Byron Cugler, and Clarence D. Wilkins. Sadly none of the men killed in action are listed on the Monument to the Veterans on Mason Avenue. Apparently one must pay a monetary fee for that honor. I hope this information will be helpful and bring you some comfort.
Paul Plante says
We don’t recall it today, because it was more than five minutes ago, but the influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people.
One fifth of the world’s population was attacked by this deadly virus.
Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.
According to the National Archives, World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives while the influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people.
The plague emerged in two phases.
In late spring of 1918, the first phase, known as the “three-day fever,” appeared without warning.
Few deaths were reported.
Victims recovered after a few days.
When the disease surfaced again that fall, it was far more severe.
Scientists, doctors, and health officials could not identify this disease which was striking so fast and so viciously, eluding treatment and defying control.
Some victims died within hours of their first symptoms.
Others succumbed after a few days; their lungs filled with fluid and they suffocated to death.
The plague did not discriminate.
It was rampant in urban and rural areas, from the densely populated East coast to the remotest parts of Alaska.
Young adults, usually unaffected by these types of infectious diseases, were among the hardest hit groups along with the elderly and young children.
The flu afflicted over 25 percent of the U.S. population.
In one year, the average life expectancy in the United States dropped by 12 years.
It is an oddity of history that the influenza epidemic of 1918 has been overlooked in the teaching of American history.
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Thank you, thank you, and thank you. The information you have given me has helped to identify the George Giddings on the plaque as someone already in my Giddings tree. I found his death certificate on Ancestry.com for Waynesville, N.C. (not S.C. as you have it). It says he was buried in Eastville. He served in the 535th Battalion Company C engineers. Born 14 January 1887 and died 11/12/1918. Father was Ellison Giddings and mother was Rina Baker Giddings.
Boot Lamb says
When will you ever become Americans and drop the hyphen?
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
When we are treated like Americans with full voting, education rights and equal economic access, we may then be able to drop the hyphen.
Paul Plante says
I have friends, good friends, who are dark-skinned, and born here in America, not over in Africa, and frankly, they, who are as American as I am, feel quite insulted by the derogatory term “African American” being applied to them because of skin pigmentation, as if they were not real Americans, but some lesser variety.
They feel the term “African-American” as applied to them without their permission or consent is a degrading term, and I happen to agree with them.
As to dropping the hyphen, which is really a crutch, or an excuse, you’ll be treated like Americans with full voting, education rights and equal economic access when you get off your asses and work for them and stop the incessant whining about “de poh black folks because they were slaves,” which is getting awful tiring.
And wake the hell up, Elenora – look around you and see how many successful black Americans there are who unlike you are not sniveling whiners complaining about “de white man putting down de poh black folks.”
Aren’t you aware that we just had a black African for president?
So quit your whining about not having full voting rights, which is horse****, and education rights, which is more horse**** and equal economic access, which is horse****, as well, and in that regard, Elenora, given that you are the only people in this country who have riots and tear down and burn down their communities, YOU BROUGHT THAT ON YOURSELF.
So grow up, Elenora and quit your pitiful whining and crying about the plight of the black folks in this country.
And Elenora, if your African ancestors had not of practiced slavery, and if they had not sold your ancestors to the Arabs and Portuguese as slaves, you would not be here whining and crying about not being equal.
You would be home back in Africa in a hut in the jungle.
There you would have equal rights, so long as someone more powerful than you didn’t make you into a slave.
So put the blame for the plight of the black man where it firmly belongs, Elenora – with your black ancestors in Africa.
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Mr. Plante, Of course there is not a monolithic opinion about anything within the African American community. You will find differences of opinion on how to refer to any group in society and what any single person wishes to refer to the self.
Although two of my Great-great-great-grandfather’s were white men, I proudly embrace my African identity. Again, if we are all treated equally, we may give up the distinct references to race. “Whitewashing” it , with words and names that may make another person feel more comfortable, just takes away the colors of the rainbow that God created.
With regard to riots- see that it was the majority society (white), who out of jealously , burned down some of our prosperous communities. https://officialblackwallstreet.com/black-wall-street-story/
Historically, Waring factions will always either kill off our ship out the other guy in order to take control of property or wealth.
Paul Plante says
I don’t know where you got your education, Ms. Giddings Ivory, but where I went to school, there was only one race taught and that was the human race, regardless of skin color.
Perhaps when the black folks like yourself stop thinking of yourself as a separate race of people, you might find it easier to integrate as have all the other colors of the rainbow here in America who are able to get along and thrive along with people who look nothing like them, at all.
And it was not WHITEY, Ms. Giddings Ivory, who burned down Watts, or Ferguson, Missouri, or Baltimore.
Pat Parks says
It is set up for them to succeed from the cradle to the grave. School programs, Free college, Mandatory Minority participation required Request for Proposals/Public bids…ect. ect. ect. Hell look at the free pass Barry got for 8 years because of political correctness and his skin color.
The smart ones use it as a ladder to success and truly succeed. Most are comfortable with the crutches of victim hood.
Jack Trump says
I just want to drop in here and say Thank You to everyone for listening to my opinion and participating in topics, both local and national. This is my last submission. I have asked that words be less aggressive in here, and have also stated that nasty and negative words destroy the ability to converse civilly, or add to the credibility of the conversation. My requests, or hints that a slightly more civil tone would help the “conversation” have been challenged and disregarded. That’s fine. I’m not in charge. I just think it would bring in more participants. I see here today words being used as slingshots and arrows and hurled at people trying to back them into corners and confront and insult them. When I look at Merriam Webster or any other source for a definition, none of that shows up in the word “conversation” that this Cape Charles Mirror asks me to join into. Negativity, insulting, and anger help nothing and fix nothing, and is a waste of time in a “conversation”. I’m having too much fun and completing too much very successful habitat enhancing work to any longer watch this “conversation” degrade . Best of luck everyone !
Note: We all hope you reconsider.
Paul Plante says
Jack, enjoy your day and best of luck in your future endeavors.
Paul Plante says
And it sounds very much like you are talking about the Democrat debates, Jack, does it not?
Paul Plante says
Elenora, with respect to your claim, which we will assume as true, about the poor black folks such as yourself not having equal “education rights,” as if there were such a thing outside of your own imagination, I notice above that you say you actually have a Political Science and History Major in college.
Shall we assume, to keep your premise true, that what you really have is the second-rate Political Science and History Major that they give to black folks, which really is not worth as much as the one they give to the white folks?
Is that what you are telling us, Elenora?
That because you are black, that your Political Science and History Major in college was second-rate because being black, you are deprived on an education equal to that a white person in America would get?
Now, there is a premise I can assure you we all would like to hear more about, so please, tell us all about it, and we will be all ears.
And if the premise is true, then does that mean the college degrees every black person in America, say, Hussein Obama, aren’t with spit because black people only get a second-rate education in America because they are black?
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
This does not rise to the level worthy of a sophisticated, civilized discourse. Good bye!
Paul Plante says
And what an excellent COP-OUT that was, which was to be expected, since you cannot defend your false premises.
You, if you will but recall, were the one who raised the issue of the black folks not being able to get the same education as a white person, which is pure horse****.
And as you are going out the door, watch it don’t slam you on the *** on the way out.
As to these supposed “rights” you are on about, I have never heard an older white American who is not a pandering and grasping politician talk about a “right” to education, because there is no such thing.
I was taught that I had an OBLIGATION and RESPONSIBILITY to society to become educated, so I would not become a burden on society, which I had no inherent right to be.
If there was in the state of nature a right to be educated, then in civilized society, there would be no need of a law that says you must attend school to be educated.
And if any of those “rights” you claim the black folks don’t have in this country were truly “rights of man/woman” in a state of nature, this so-called “right” to vote, or this so-called “right” to education, or a right to a good-paying job, then the very first place that one would expect to find those rights in existence would have to be in Africa at the time of slavery.
But there were no such rights in Africa, were there, Elenora.
In Africa, you had NO RIGHTS whatsoever, period, which is why you people made slaves out of yourself and lived like savages in Africa.
Which takes us to “A Citizen of America: An Examination Into the Leading Principles of America” by Noah Webster on October 17, 1787, as follows:
But I cannot quit this subject without attempting to correct some of the erroneous opinions respecting freedom and tyranny, and the principles by which they are supported.
Many people seem to entertain an idea, that liberty consists in a power to act without any control.
This is more liberty than even the savages enjoy.
But in civil society, political liberty consists in acting conformably to a sense of a majority of the society.
In a free government every man binds himself to obey the public voice, or the opinions of a majority; and the whole society engages to protect each individual.
In such a government a man is free and safe.
But reverse the case; suppose every man to act without control or fear of punishment — every man would be free, but no man would be sure of his freedom one moment.
Each would have the power of taking his neighbor’s life, liberty, or property; and no man would command more than his own strength to repel the invasion.
end quotes
There is what you would have had over there in your homeland of Africa – no rights at all.
So you should be thankful you are here, and not over there, where you would never know from day to day what kind of tribal violence you might be caught up with your life in danger.
But you are certainly welcome to go back to your homeland if you don’t like it here.
I am sure they would welcome you in over there and never another white face would you have to see.
Boot Lamb says
Maybe stop committing 65-75% of all violent crime. Just a thought, as you are only 13% of our population.
Paul Plante says
If people are so squeamish about the use of the word “colored” on that plaque, then get somebody in there with a chisel and chisel off the word colored and replace it with its modern accepted equivalent of “persons of color” and that should put this whole silly incident to rest.
Or run the plaque through a power hacksaw and make three pieces out of it, and then glue it back together with the part that says “colored” put back in above the part that doesn’t say “colored,” which puts those other dudes who also died for their country down below the colored dudes who did the same, and that should also mollify all these “WOKE” people who are upset that actual history didn’t go the way they wanted history to go before they were alive.
Ah, if only people back then had been as perfect in every way as these “WOKE” crowd are today, what a glorious world this would be today, indeed.
Uncle Joe says
Hims Woke…but dem din do nuffins.
Paul Plante says
Sssssssssss’up, Uncle Joe!
What’s the haps down your way?
And since I got you on the line here, let me say that I thought Bob Seger did alright by you by putting you into that song Fire Lake they way he did, with a touch of poignancy, to wit:
Who’s goin’ to ride that chrome 3-wheeler?
Who’s goin’ to make that first mistake
Who wants to wear those gypsy leather
All the way to Fire Lake
Who wants to break the news about Uncle Joe?
You remember Uncle Joe
He was the one afraid to cut the cake
Who wants to tell poor Aunt Sarah?
Joe’s run off to Fire Lake
Joe’s run off to Fire Lake
end quotes
Let’s face it, Uncle Joe, that is some powerful stuff there, about your apotheosis from a dude afraid to cut the cake being totally transformed into a dude who rode the chrome 3-wheeler all the way to Fire Lake to brave those bronzed beauties, lyin in the sun with their long soft hair fallen, flying as they run.
They don’t write powerful lyrics with an actual moral to the story like that anymore, do they.
How sad.
Chas Cornweller says
The ironic truth of this scenario is, in separating out the names based on skin color most astute persons will come to realize that the families of the fallen sons, fathers, husbands and brothers, who suffered the greater losses, were of the African persuasion. It portrays the truth. Integrate the names and the impact of this will be lost to time. Leave it be.
Paul Plante says
As to your comment about the losses the black dudes suffered during WWI, Chas Cornweller, are you at all familiar with the “Fighting 369th?”
For your edification, dear friend Chas, the 369th Infantry Regiment, formerly known as the 15th New York National Guard Regiment and commonly referred to as the Harlem Hellfighters, was an infantry regiment of the New York Army National Guard during World War I.
The Regiment consisted mainly of African Americans.
With the 370th Infantry Regiment, it was known for being one of the first African American regiments to serve with the American Expeditionary Forces during World War I.
Before the 15th NG Regiment was formed, any African American that wanted to fight in the war had to enlist in the French or Canadian armies.
The regiment was nicknamed the Black Rattlers.
The nickname Men of Bronze was given to the regiment by the French and Hell-fighters was given to them by the Germans.
During WWI, the 369th spent 191 days in front line trenches, more than any other American unit.
They also suffered the most losses of any American regiment with 1,500 casualties.
The 369th Infantry Regiment on 8 May 1918 went into the trenches as part of the French 16th Division and it served continuously until 3 July before returning to combat in the Second Battle of the Marne.
Later, the 369th was reassigned to Gen. Lebouc’s 161st Division to participate in the Allied counterattack.
On one tour, they were out for over six months, which was the longest deployment of any unit in World War I.
On 25 September 1918 the Fourth French Army went on the offensive in conjunction with the American drive in the Meuse–Argonne.
The 369th turned in a good account in heavy fighting, though they sustained severe losses.
The unit captured the important village of Séchault.
At one point the 369th advanced faster than French troops on their right and left flanks, and risked being cut off.
By the time the regiment pulled back for reorganization, it had advanced 14 kilometres (8.7 mi) through severe German resistance.
In mid-October the regiment was moved to a quiet sector in the Vosges Mountains, where it was stationed there on 11 November, the day of the Armistice.
Six days later, the 369th made its last advance and on 26 November, reaching the banks of the river Rhine and becoming the first Allied unit to do so.
The regiment was relieved on 12 December 1918 from assignment to the French 161st Division.
Two Medals of Honor and numerous Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded to members of the regiment.
Perhaps the most celebrated man in the 369th was Pvt. Henry Johnson, a former Albany, New York, rail station porter, who earned the nickname “Black Death” for his actions in combat in France.
In May 1918 Johnson and Pvt. Needham Roberts fought off a 24-man German patrol, though both were severely wounded.
After they expended their ammunition, Roberts used his rifle as a club and Johnson battled with a bolo knife.
Reports suggest Johnson killed at least four German soldiers and might have wounded 30 others.
On 13 December 1918, one month after Armistice day, the French government awarded the Croix de Guerre to 170 individual members of the 369th, and a unit citation was awarded to the entire regiment.
It was pinned to the unit’s colors by General Lebouc.
end quotes
Whether those names on that plaque were members of the 369th is unknown, but suffice to say, dear friend Chas, they died fighting for THEIR country.
And perhaps more of them died, dear friend Chas, because they were in some of the thickest fighting.
That is the way with war, afterall – who gets to live and who gets to die is luck of the draw.
So salute them for their service, dear friend Chas.
They deserve it.
Chas Cornweller says
An interesting morning read, old friend. I had not heard of the Black Rattlers before or of the 15th NG Regiment and Fighting 369th. I shall endeavor to look up more information and read up on them.
The sad facts are, however, and I believe you know this as well, most, if not all came back to a strongly perceived, white America and the same conditions to which they left. Racism, lynching’s (esp. in the southern states) and rampant segregation were the norm. The value of the American Black soldier and their deeds was diminished to zero upon their return to these shores. Many elected to return to France, where they were not only welcomed, but celebrated and integrated into combined society that unconditionally accepted them. I could give many such success stories from this era but suffice in this comment to just leave it at that.
It is a known truth that the Wilsonian era and just beyond proved a rank and dark chapter in America’s race relations. Again, I could add antidotal evidence to support the racism that was prevalent in those times. My point is this, no matter the bravery, self-sacrifice or known ferocity of our African brethren, some narrow-minded and dimmed conscience folks will always and continue to see Blacks as inferior, cowardice, lazy, and less than human. And Paul, that’s on them. Not me, not you, not society in general. Many, many Americans have turned a corner on racism and have grown in relative awareness to accept the fact that we are not all the same, nor are we all, all that different. No one is less than, in the eyes of God. And all are worthy of achieving as high as they dare climb.
Thank you again, for your contributions.
Paul Plante says
Dear friend Chas, none of that is disputed, since it is American history 101, but that is a hundred years ago now.
Yes, of course they were discriminated against.
We all know that, Chas – it basic American history that we used to learn as children in this country.
But so were Viet Nam veterans discriminated when we returned to this country, although I don’t know if any of us were lynched by Hillary Clinton’s gang of anti-war protesters who spit on us when we got back from Viet Nam and who would have kept us out of the country if they had been able.
But this is history, as well, dear friend Chas:
On 8 October 1917, the 369th Regiment traveled to Camp Wadsworth in Spartanburg, South Carolina, where they received training in actual combat.
Camp Wadsworth was set up similar to the French battlefields.
While at Camp Wadsworth they experienced significant racism from the local communities and from other units.
There was one incident in which two soldiers from the 15th Regiment, Lieutenant James Reese Europe and Noble Sissle, were refused by the owner of a hotel shop when they attempted to buy a newspaper.
Several soldiers from the white 27th Division, a New York National Guard organization, came to aid their fellow soldiers.
Lieutenant Europe had commanded them to leave before violence erupted.
There were many other shops that refused to sell goods to the members of the 15th Regiment, so members of the 27th Division told the shop owners that if they did not serve black soldiers that they can close their stores and leave town.
The white soldiers then stated “They’re our buddies.”
“And we won’t buy from men who treat them unfairly.”
end quotes
So not every white person was a racist monster, dear friend Chas, contrary to what the “WOKE” crowd would have us believe about white people and their precious “white privilege.”
And this is history, as well , from the Army History site, to wit:
The situation was desperate in France, and with exhausted and dwindling armies, the French begged the United States for men.
GEN John Pershing, commander of the American Expeditionary Force, promised them four American regiments.
He decided to give them the regiments of the 93d Division since the French, who had used French colonial troops from Senegal, had experience in employing black soldiers in combat.
The first African American combat troops to set foot on French soil belonged to the 93d Division.
Armed, organized, and equipped as a French unit, the 93d quickly adjusted to their new assignment.
The 369th Infantry was the first regiment of the 93d Division to reach France.
They arrived in the port city of Brest in December 1917.
On 10 March, after three months of duty with the Services of Supply, the 369th received orders to join the French 16th Division in Givry en Argonne for additional training.
After three weeks the regiment was sent to the front lines in a region just west of the Argonne Forest.
For nearly a month they held their position against German assaults, and after only a brief break from the front, the 369th was placed once again in the middle of the German offensive, this time at Minacourt, France.
From 18 July to 6 August 1918, the 369th Infantry, now proudly nicknamed the “Harlem Hellfighters,” proved their tenacity once again by helping the French 161st Division drive the Germans from their trenches during the Aisne-Marne counter-offensive.
In this three-week period, the Germans were making many small night raids into Allied territory.
During one of these raids, a member of the 369th Infantry, CPL Henry Johnson, fought off an entire German raiding party using only a pistol and a knife.
Killing four of the Germans and wounding many more, his actions allowed a wounded comrade to escape capture and led to the seizure of a stockpile of German arms.
Johnson and his comrade were wounded and both received the French Croix de Guerre for their gallantry.
Johnson was also promoted to sergeant.
From 26 September to 5 October, the 369th participated in the Meuse-Argonne offensive, and continued to fight well throughout the remainder of the war.
The regiment fought in the front lines for a total of 191 days, five days longer than any other regiment in the AEF.
France awarded the entire unit the Croix de Guerre, along with presenting 171 individual awards for exceptional gallantry in action.
Although the 369th won much of the glory for the 93d Division, the 370th, 371st, and 372d Regiments, each assigned to different French divisions, also proved themselves worthy of acclaim at the front.
The 370th fought hard in both the Meuse-Argonne and Oise-Aisne campaigns.
Seventy-one members of the regiment received the French Croix de Guerre, and another twenty-one soldiers received the Distinguished Service Cross (DSC).
Company C, 371st Infantry, earned the Croix de Guerre with Palm.
The 371st Regiment spent more than three months on the front lines in the Verdun area, and for its extraordinary service in the Champagne offensive, the entire regiment was awarded the Croix de Guerre with Palm.
In addition, three of the 371st’s officers were awarded the French Legion of Honor, 123 men won the Croix de Guerre, and twenty-six earned the DSC.
The 372d Infantry also performed admirably during the American assault in Champagne, and afterwards assisted in the capture of Monthois.
It was there the regiment faced strong resistance and numerous counterattacks, resulting in many instances of hand-to-hand combat.
In less than two weeks of front line service, the 372d suffered 600 casualties.
The regiment earned a unit Croix de Guerre with Palm, and in addition, forty-three officers, fourteen noncommissioned officers, and 116 privates received either the Croix de Guerre or the DSC.
end quotes
Credit where credit is due, Chas.
Uncle Remus says
Him’s Woke…
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Yes, leave it be!
Pat Parks says
For almost 150 years the United States has been conducting an interesting experiment. The subjects of the experiment: black people and working-class whites.
The hypothesis to be tested: Can a people taken from the jungles of Africa and forced into slavery be fully integrated as citizens in a majority white population?
The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements. Acting on a policy that was not fair to either group, the government released newly freed black people into a white society that saw them as inferiors. America has struggled with racial discord ever since.
Decade after decade the problems persisted but the experimenters never gave up. They insisted that if they could find the right formula the experiment would work, and concocted program after program to get the result they wanted. They created the Freedman’s Bureau, passed civil rights laws, tried to build the Great Society, declared War on Poverty, ordered race preferences, built housing projects, and tried midnight basketball.
Their new laws intruded into people’s lives in ways that would have been otherwise unthinkable. They called in National Guard troops to enforce school integration. They outlawed freedom of association. Over the protests of parents, they put white children on buses and sent them to black schools and vice versa. They tried with money, special programs, relaxed standards, and endless handwringing to close the “achievement gap.” To keep white backlash in check they began punishing public and even private statements on race. They hung up Orwellian public banners that commanded whites to “Celebrate Diversity!” and “Say No to Racism.” Nothing was off limits if it might salvage the experiment.
Some thought that what W.E.B. Du Bois called the Talented Tenth would lead the way for black people. A group of elite, educated blacks would knock down doors of opportunity and show the world what blacks were capable of. There is a Talented Tenth. They are the black Americans who have become entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and scientists. But ten percent is not enough. For the experiment to work, the ten percent has to be followed by a critical mass of people who can hold middle-class jobs and promote social stability. That is what is missing.
Through the years, too many black people continue to show an inability to function and prosper in a culture unsuited to them. Detroit is bankrupt, the south side of Chicago is a war zone, and the vast majority of black cities all over America are beset by degeneracy and violence. And blacks never take responsibility for their failures. Instead, they lash out in anger and resentment.
Across the generations and across the country, as we have seen in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, and now Ferguson, rioting and looting are just one racial incident away. The white elite would tell us that this doesn’t mean the experiment has failed. We just have to try harder. We need more money, more time, more understanding, more programs, and more opportunities.
But nothing changes no matter how much money is spent, no matter how many laws are passed, no matter how many black geniuses are portrayed on TV, and no matter who is president. Some argue it’s a problem of “culture,” as if culture creates people’s behavior instead of the other way around. Others blame “white privilege.”
But since 1965, when the elites opened America’s doors to the Third World, immigrants from Asia and India–people who are not white, not rich, and not “connected”–have quietly succeeded. While the children of these people are winning spelling bees and getting top scores on the SAT, black “youths” are committing half the country’s violent crime–crime, which includes viciously punching random white people on the street for the thrill of it that has nothing to do with poverty.
The experiment has failed. Not because of culture, or white privilege, or racism. The fundamental problem is that white people and black people are different. They differ intellectually and temperamentally. These differences result in permanent social incompatibility.
Our rulers don’t seem to understand just how tired their white subjects are with this experiment. They don’t understand that white people aren’t out to get black people; they are just exhausted with them. They are exhausted by the social pathologies, the violence, the endless complaints, and the blind racial solidarity, the bottomless pit of grievances, the excuses, and the reflexive animosity.
The elites explain everything with “racism,” and refuse to believe that white frustration could soon reach the boiling point.
tkenny says
Nice Pat. Little warm today to be under that sheet, isn’t it?
While many online postings of the above-displayed article in June 2015 claimed that it had been recently published in Baltimore Sun, this article has actually been circulating on the Internet since at least September 2014, when it was published under the title “Ten Percent Is Not Enough” in the American Renaissance blog.
The American Renaissance posting was originally attributed to Anthony Bryan; but his name was stripped from versions shared via Internet forums, craigslist postings, and comments sections of several race-related articles. Several different authorial names have been attached to the piece, including “John S. Mosby” (a Confederate cavalry officer) and “Edmund Hughes,” but the article didn’t truly go viral until after the Baltimore Sun attribution was tacked on.
American Renaissance (AR or AmRen) is a monthly white supremacist online publication founded and edited by Jared Taylor.[1][2][3][4] It is published by the New Century Foundation, which describes itself as a “race-realist, white advocacy organization”.[5][6] It has also been described as “alt-right” by The Guardian.[7]
Pat Parks says
and your point is?
No Political Correctness for you! (seinfeld soup nazi bit)
Paul Plante says
Nice to see you, tkenny.
And remember that line from the song that went something like “people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest?”
Well, that’s still true today.
Nothing has changed.
The same conversation has been going on now for at least fifty years that I can account for, and it was already going on at that time.
In a speech the “Great Emancipator” Abraham Lincoln made at Charleston, Illinois, on Sept. 18, 1858, he said that “there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.”
Now, tkenny, is that true because Abraham Lincoln said it, and we have to accept it, or is that merely his opinion?
Some of course will believe it true, no matter what.
And before that, in a speech Mr. Hayne of South Carolina made in the United States Senate on January 25, 1830, he stated as follows concerning the Africans, as follows:
We are ready to make up the issue with the gentleman, as to the influence of slavery on individual and national character — on the prosperity and greatness, either of the United States, or of particular States.
Sir, when arraigned before the bar of public opinion, on this charge of slavery, we can stand up with conscious rectitude, plead not guilty, and put ourselves upon God and our country.
Sir, we will not stop to inquire whether the black man, as some philosophers have contended, is of an inferior race, nor whether his color and condition are the effects of a curse inflicted for the offences of his ancestors.
We deal in no abstractions.
end quotes
Now, tkenny, there is the national debate on the subject that everyone in America should be aware of, but are not, so that debate goes on and on without end.
Getting back to Mr. Haynes:
If slavery, as it now exists in this country, be an evil, we of the present day found it ready made to our hands.
Finding our lot cast among a people, whom God had manifestly committed to our care, we did not sit down to speculate on abstract questions of theoretical liberty.
We met it as a practical question of obligation and duty.
end quotes
You, tkenny, are an educated man – can you put yourself back in the time he was speaking in, and give him a cogent argument as to how he is wrong?
Getting back to Mr. Hayne:
We resolved to make the best of the situation in which Providence had placed us, and to fulfil the high trust which had developed upon us as the owners of slaves, in the only way in which such a trust could be fulfilled, without spreading misery and ruin throughout the land.
We found that we had to deal with a people whose physical, moral, and intellectual habits and character, totally disqualified them from the enjoyment of the blessings of freedom.
end quotes
Now, tkenny, regardless of how some intellectually superior “WOKE” people see things today, that is how Americans at one time looked upon the “people of color” in this country.
Now, because a United States Senator said those words, does it make them true today?
Were they true at the time he said them?
And then he said this, to wit:
We could not send them back to the shores from whence their fathers had been taken; their numbers forbade the thought, even if we did not know that their condition here is infinitely preferable to what it possibly could be among the barren sands and savage tribes of Africa; and it was wholly irreconcileable with all our notions of humanity to tear asunder the tender ties which they had formed among us, to gratify the feelings of a false philanthropy.
end quotes
How would you have responded, tkenny?
How do you respond today?
Not to be like Jack and try to tell you what you have to say when you make a post, but it might have been more helpful to the discussion if you had gone through Pat’s post sentence by sentence to show us how any of it might be false or wrong.
Attributing it to some alt-right (WTF is alt-right?) publication accomplishes nothing, tkenny, unless you want to posit that anything a right-winger says is automatically false because right-wingers never tell the truth.
Just saying.
Boot Lamb says
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
June 28, 2019 at 10:11 pm
This does not rise to the level worthy of a sophisticated, civilized discourse. Good bye!
No One is obligated to give you civil anything, much less discourse…Political Correctness has given you a false sense of civility, that is not required.
Paul Plante says
“Sophisticated civil discourse” is when two or more people use a lot of sophisticated words to say nothing of any consequence to each other, so that everybody is made to feel good about themselves, which is really what is important in “sophisticated civil discourse, ” the art of saying nothing in 500 words or more.
Paul Plante says
Jack Trump did give us fair warning as to what would happen if we did not knuckle-under and do what he told us we would have to do to stay on his good side, and true to his word, when we didn’t obey, Jack wrote for himself an eloquent on-line obituary and has departed the scene, never apparently to come back, and so it goes and such it is.
Obviously, as I have said before, we come from markedly different political philosophies concerning what the word “democracy” really does mean.
According to Jack’s version of democracy, which I call demockery, and this is a philosophy he shares with Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton, words in a political debate in here have to be “less aggressive,” according to some rule book on democracy that Jack is in sole possession of.
But that is a bastardized version of democracy by my tradition.
And Jack further stated his mopinion, as if it were iron-clad fact, that nasty and negative words destroy the ability to converse civilly, or add to the credibility of the conversation, to which I must respond, oh, really?
So which words then should be censored as being nasty and negative?
Let’s get them excised, post-haste, from the American lexicology and political vocabulary.
Jack then continues by stating, “My requests, or hints that a slightly more civil tone would help the ‘conversation’ have been challenged and disregarded,” to which I reply, “of course they have, Jack, because this is America.”
We do not have to think and act the way you demand we do, or you’ll take your football and run home.
Jack then says: “I see here today words being used as slingshots and arrows and hurled at people trying to back them into corners and confront and insult them.”
To which I reply, do you now?
I must have missed that part of the discussion, myself, because I did not see any of that taking place in here.
Jack then says “When I look at Merriam Webster or any other source for a definition, none of that shows up in the word ‘conversation’ that this Cape Charles Mirror asks me to join into.”
To which I would respond you’re looking up the wrong word, because this is not a mere conversation (a talk, especially an informal one, between two or more people, in which news and ideas are exchanged); to the contrary, it is more in the form of a debate, which is defined as a “formal discussion on a particular topic in a public setting in which opposing arguments are put forward,” with such synonyms as exchange of views or discourse, or as a verb meaning “argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner,” with such synonyms as confer about, talk through, thrash out, argue about, dispute, wrangle over, bandy words concerning, contend over, and contest.
So, while perhaps negativity, insulting, and anger help nothing and fix nothing, and is a waste of time in a “conversation,” the fact of the matter is that this is not a conversation, so those rules do not apply.
As to language used in political debates here in America, as opposed to some third-world ****-hole where overt censorship prevails, I offer up “A Foreign Spectator XXIII” by Nicholas Collin in the Independent Gazetteer on September 17, 1787, as an example, to wit:
At present the negro slavery is a federal object — It revolts against the plainest and universally established principles of humanity and common equity; it is in that respect a national disgrace; it is a standing proof and example of corruption.
In a political view the effect is dangerous — A man who exercises absolute power over some hundred fellow creatures, although he should not abuse it, cannot easily have a heart-felt sensibility of the equal rights of mankind, the moderation of a republican, and a genuine love of liberty.
Let no barbarian with impunity starve, mangle, and kill in lingering tortures a miserable defenceless fellow-creature!
Let not a brute, who never felt parental, filial or conjugal affection, by a cruel separation inflict on husband and wife, parents and children, agonies worse than the most dreadful death — agonies from which the most affectionate bosom often seek from the poison, the dagger, the friendly wave that relief which an impotent or inhuman government will not give.
end quotes
My goodness, there he is calling people barbarians and brutes!
How insulting!
Shame on him!
And not content with that, he has the temerity to come back in “A Foreign Spectator XXVIII” by Nicholas Collin in the Independent Gazetteer on September 28, 1787, as follows:
The many needy adventurers, bad characters, and low bred wretches, that flock hither from European countries, cannot but give unfavorable ideas; but it is wrong to judge from these; and happier would America be without this scum of the earth.
end quote
OMG, the shame of it, calling those many needy adventurers, bad characters, and low bred wretches, that flock hither from European countries “this scum of the earth.”
What kind of way is that to have a sophisticated, civil conversation?
Or take the Convention Essay by Anonymous in the Massachusetts Centinel, Boston on October 13, 1787:
The people appear to be united in sentiment, that the American Constitution will give them such a government why then, in the name of honesty, should they be plagued with the groundless surmises and falsehoods of those who fear for themselves, but for the publick have no bowels of compassion?
Why should any man be so vain, so self-sufficient, as to palm his individual judgment upon the people, as superior to that of the concentered wisdom of America, in its late glorious CONVENTION?
end quotes
My goodness, the insulting words go on and on and on, don’t they.
Or how about “One of the Four Thousand” by Unknown in the Independent Gazetteer, Philadelphia on October 15, 1787, to wit:
To the FREEMEN OF PENNSYLVANIA.
A publication has lately appeared in several of our papers, said to be signed by sixteen members of the late Assembly of Pennsylvania, which challenges a few remarks.
The first remark that occurs is, that the paper was neither written by any one of them, nor signed by all of them.
They are too illiterate to compose such an address, and it can be proved that several of the persons whose names are subscribed to it left the city on Saturday, before there was time to collect the materials of the address, or to receive it from the person who is well known to have written it.
end quotes
To me, the Cape Charles Mirror carries on that tradition of those early newspapers, which is something we common folks here in America should be damn thankful about.
And if Jack’s rules had applied back then, we would probably all be tugging the forelock and bending the knee to as foreign king.
Jack Trump says
Well Good Lord Paul, all I wanted to do was ease away gently into that good night, and for some back-stabbing childish reason, you decided to turn your position into a bully pulpit and lie extensively about me to make no valid point at me at all. How sad. I guess I’ll come out of what was supposed to be a quiet retirement, since you decided to empty all the garbage from your mind all over my keyboard, and retort.
Your mother isn’t very proud of the horses’ ass she found out she raised in you, is she ?
I once voiced an opinion in here that someone responded to me with a request that I do not awaken The Plante. I knew what that meant, and I respected the request for a while. Just not today. Knowing that my “quite retirement” created more than one peck of horse poop from you, we all can’t wait to see what this brings.
I’ve been nothing but a perfect gentleman in here, and you insist on trying to turn me into something else with your lies. As a man who does love this republic, I do have to come back and blast you with the truth that you so wonderfully hide yourself from with your very selective memory.
1st off, I have come to the conclusion that you are a very serious drunkard. You bounce back and forth with a serious inability to even remember what you are writing, therefore it is the only reason I can think of for a lucid individual to carry on the irresponsible way you do. Kelly’s must love you, unless they’ve thrown you to the curb.
I started to create that opinion and that statement on the fact that I even once sent you an e mail and informed you that you listed on this site a response wherein someone had dropped an f bomb in their opinion. For you to let that pass, well I wonder how many whiskeys that took you. It also obviously pointed out, that you need an editor. On my suggestion, you did remove the f bomb, and you thanked me
Those who chose to refuse to learn the lessons of history are certainly doomed to repeat it. You are obviously a serious and accomplished history buff, and you still seriously need an editor
2nd off, and I’ll stop with the counting here because I have no need for it, you seem to forget what the home page for this Mirror advertises itself to be, and what it requests. That page most certainly does state that we are invited to join the conversation. That opening page does not inform anyone that this is a debate, in which you seem to have all the time in the world and will just keep talking and insulting and expecting us to accept any ridiculous premise that you wish to put on display to use as a weapon to spew vomit out of your mouth and throw it at a contributor. That is what this bully pulpit is used for.
You seriously need an editor. You apparently drunkenly ignore the self destructive, bloviated nonsense that leaks out when you flippantly type away and chase away contributors.
On that note, a photo appeared in here a short time ago. That photo is of Russians and a comparison was made to the manner in which some local citizens are going about their business with historical decisions in Cape Charles. I expressed an opinion that made it clear I thought this was over the top and completely unnecessary and counter productive.
Based on your contribution there, I find it very comical, and certainly ironic, that you compare me to Nancy Pelosi. After all, she is the leader of a large group of Americans who have been filling us all with nonsensical Russian theories. You have certainly jumped on her bandwagon, haven’t you ? Using uniformed Russian rulers/soldiers to make you insulting bully point ? Or don’t you see that sort of thing when you look in your (Cape Charles ) Mirror ? Just what distorted opinions/vision do you have ? You need an editor. Or do you and Putin drink vodka together ? (sarcasm)
I have several times stated in here that I am a self proclaimed socially responsible and independent republicrat. That silly title certainly demonstrates that I will be a party to no one. Therefore, in taking your own reflection off your mirror, and throwing it at me, you certainly prove you listen to no one. That’s your idea of a debate ?
Your bloviated opinion claims that you hold dear the concept of the forefathers of journalism in this country. Really ? Well then why would you blatantly lie and state that I held a bastardized view of democracy ? In this Republic the right to free speech allows us to state what we wish, correct ? So I did. I lowered the quality of nothing. You are doing a really good job of that all by yourself. You don’t need or want my help. I demanded nothing. Insulted nothing. I simply finished talking. What’s your childish, or drunken, problem ?
Don’t all (fore)fathers wish better for their children and those that follow them ? You may have chosen to follow someone from history who was a hard driving, bomb throwing opinion shaper from an earlier time. Good for you. There were other types of writers/historians/publishers from those times. You wish to pick playing the Hollywood role of a drunken, screaming, cigar smoking deaf to all opinions type setting newspaper man ? Feel free.
At the same time, why is there something wrong with not throwing bombs, not offending, accomplishing more of your goal, reaching a larger audience, and creating even more of a consistent and participating audience ? If you don’t wish to try that. That’s fine. I SUGGEST again, you may want to look in the mirror. I didn’t bastardize the democracy with my request. YOU bastardized the democracy, and your Mirror, by attacking and insulting my opinion. How sad for you. YOU NEED AN EDITOR, and to join A.A.
You actually have the ignorance, and selective memory to state in here that you do not remember, and did not see, any contribution from you that would make me say that you were “using words as slingshots and arrows and hurling them at people to back them into corners and insult them?” Really ? Your Mirror is becoming more and more distorted. Is it the Russian vodka, or has your bloated, narcissistic ego becoming so pompous, conceited and arrogant that you really don’t even know when you are throwing bombs any more ? Good Lord man. YOU NEED AN EDITOR. I guess your keystrokes are deaf.
The way you treated me never really bothered me. I just accepted you for the drunk you must be. I’ve got a pretty hard shell. I just choose to no longer participate in conversation with someone who would insult anyone and everything like you did Ms. Giddings. She came in here as a human being looking for a little help to find information on relatives. You responded to hear in quite the flippant manner and sent her off like a fly with your swatter. You are obviously excellent at research, with an excellent background in history. For some reason you’d rather insult her and degrade her opinion and questions of history, than give her more than 3 seconds of assistance. You could have taken a minute, and really sent her down the road to find exactly what she was looking for. In doing so you could have opened a serious dialogue with her that many of the stalled ancestral searches on The Shore could have learned from, and sent them down a better search road.
Your total and complete lack of patience, kindness and desire to serve the community was displayed horrendously, and you didn’t even need a flag to wave ! Swell.
No, you don’t have to be nice, or kind, or helpful, or informative. You can even be a miserable, boorish, drunken sot when you respond to people. I’m simply telling you I don’t like to converse with people like you. I find it counter productive and a waste of time. I can do it too, don’t you think ? I can degrade a conversation well, don’t you think ? Did you and your mother like it when I called you a horses’ ass ? I bet, if you actually display this, that lots of people who read this say I can imitate your sad style of opinion spreading rather well, and they think I have deservedly blasted you. In truth, all I have done is waste my time.
I must also now say that you are not a good example of The American any more at all. I do seriously believe you are sad and seriously prejudiced individual. The reason ? Today’s article on Sara Baldwin and her contribution to working with the U.N. Her stated goals include attempts to eradicate poverty. That’s wonderful. This Mirror appears to laud her when you have very recently blasted, insulted, and driven away Ms. Giddens who wanted to talk about very much the same subjects that Ms. Baldwin is presenting to the U.N. You took a portion of Ms. Giddings words and opinion, and shoved them down her throat. This certainly appears to me to be the work of a boorish drunkard, a seriously prejudiced narcissist, or someone who has no idea what they say, or who they say it too, or how little public harmony they disrupt. It appears you like the white lady and hate the black. Or do you, like Nancy Pelosi, want to help all the world except the homeless in The united States ? This takes the work of a complete fool, and I waste my time talking to such people. Don’t I ?
You seriously need an editor.
Why would you blatantly lie and twist my words and say that” I told you to obey or knuckle under to my ideas in order to stay on my good side ?” You really must have your eyes and your eyes waaaay far up your butt to think I stated that. What I did was request or suggest that consideration be made to the idea. I didn’t even insult anyone, much less flat out lie like you did, you drunken bum. In doing so you certainly display yourself to be like much of our lying, fake news press. They take the words of leaders, presidents, whoever they wish to bastardize and attack, and change their words to be something they are not at all. In doing so all they do is lower their own credibility and endanger freedom of speech. CONGRATULATIONS !! You have joined that club.
You seriously need an editor.
Since your nonsensical lying attack on my back as I withdrew from here, I looked back at some of the history and “conversations” that have taken place at this Mirror. I see a tremendous amount of names that were respondents to subjects, and I no longer see those participants responding. This surely makes me think I am not the first person who wishes you HAD AN EDITOR that you would listen to so more conversations or debates could take place and be constructive and actually accomplish more than just give you a platform to blast people.
Oh, I know, that’s censorship. LMAO ! Not true. It’s simply an attempt to get you from shoving a dung covered boot down your throat. It stinks in my computer and I respect your life too.
Why would you blatantly, try to portray me as a child, and lie and say that I took my football and went home ? I simply stated that I didn’t like the conversation, that it was a waste of time, and I decided to no longer participate. In case you forgot to look in the mirror, it’s not my football. I simply went home because I think you play w/o helmets and constantly take the football and batter people’s heads and opinions with yours, until they just don’t participate any more, and the concussions you dish out and receive aren’t worth the childish and shallow insults.
There are several wonderful things about being in the aquaculture business, aside from making a good living. I have a wonderful outside office here. A better office than George Bush, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump. I always get to respect and clean the environment. My shellfish also contribute to that idea/attitude in millions of gallons of filtered/cleansed water. I buy small shellfish and nurture them and raise them to market size, and I sell millions of them for a profit. Therefore I demonstrate my ability to deal with bottom feeders in a very effective and proven way. It is a talent that I take to the shore with me. It’s a wonderful lesson to learn. Recognizing when I am dealing with a bottom feeder. That’s why I don’t wish to speak with you any more. I discovered I was wasting my time dealing with a backstabbing, lying, totally full of crap, bombastic bottom feeder. You pump in air and water and pump out nothing but…….do I have to spell it out for you ?
$10 Elaine Luria can’t have anything to do with you any more. You can do whatever you want. THAT is the beauty of free speech. It’s just that why would you be so destructive, self destructive, and counter productive with words that you would be trying to drive participants away. I’m sure she can’t participate any more.
I do thank you though for giving me the opportunity to prove the simple points I made so easily with non angry words. Anger, backstabbing and insults accomplish nothing and waste all our time.
Paul Plante says
OMG, Jack, that is so hilarious that I have tears in my eyes I’m laughing so hard!
What a good stand-up comic you would make when they have an open-mic night at Kelly’s for stand-up comics, which is something the out-of-town tourists really like to see and find so charming about Cape Charles, and I hope you won’t disappoint them.
That is some great stuff, Jack, so thanks for a good laugh!
And happy retirement to you, as well!
tokenny says
Standing up and slow clapping. Well said.
Paul Plante says
It is indeed a masterpiece example not only of how nasty and negative words both destroy the ability to converse civilly, nor add to the credibility of the conversation, but how a slightly more civil tone would help the “conversation.”
And it too is an excellent example 0f how words in the hands of a master wordsmith can be used as slingshots and arrows and hurled at people trying to back them into corners and confront and insult them.
Beyond that, as if that were not already enough, it is a masterful presentation of how negativity, insulting, and anger help nothing and fix nothing, and is a waste of time in a “conversation.”
A very powerful demonstration all the way around, tokenny, was it not?
tokenny says
You’re playing the “innocent card”, Paul? I’ve been around here long before you appeared. I think you need to reflect, maybe re-read the miles of balderdash you have written and with a straight face tell us that you were not condescending, belligerent, bullying, badgering, self-righteous , insulting, etc.
You my friend are the cruise missile to civil discourse. In all my time here I have not seen where your contributions helped or fixed anything. If anything you hijacked threads where you then dominated the remainder of the conversation.
I have no problem with Jack getting nasty because the body of his work here (if that’s what you want to call it) shows that he isn’t nasty. If he has a difference of opinion he doesn’t attempt to drag the individual through the gutter. You on the other-hand ….?
Paul Plante says
Hi, tokenny!
Gosh, but you seem like such a nice person!
I hope you day is going well for you because you do seem so nice, and nice people should have very nice days!
Paul Plante says
A Federalist Essay
Independent Gazetteer, Philadelphia
October 25, 1787
Centinel, in discussing this point, has ransacked his brains, tortured, twisted, and perverted the new plan of government, to support his blundering assertions; especially where he has quoted sect. 4 of the 1st Art.
end quotes
And you are right, tokenny, yes, I was not condescending, belligerent, bullying, badgering, self-righteous, insulting, etc, all said with a straight face with a smile on it because I so much enjoy interacting with you in here where you give us such a great living example of what pomposity looks like in real life.
Paul Plante says
And to put your’s and Jack’s fears about the demise of conversation in the Cape Charles Mirror to rest, I would draw your notice to the fact that the conversation is quite alive and well in the thread “Is the Beach No Longer a Priority?” which perhaps indicates your arguments to the contrary are on the order of Chicken Little screeching and shrieking about the sky is falling, or AOC screeching and shrieking that in 12 years, the world is going to come to an end if people do not immediately adopt and implement every facet of her “Green New Deal,” which was nothing more than a fund-raising scam.
Just saying.
tokenny says
I have and to draw your notice to the fact that you have not posted anything under it! Is it just a coincidence?
Paul Plante says
What makes you so enjoyable, tokenny, especially in the morning with a cup of coffee, is that you are so droll.
Is that a talent you were born with, do you think?
Or is it a skill that you have had to work hard to develop?
You have a lot of fans in the world, you know, because there are many people outside of myself who are fans of droll people like yourself.
As to people posting, tokenny, I have been on the internet since 2004 now, which doing some math for you is fifteen years, and in that time, what I have noticed is that people post when they have something to say, and the rest of the time, they are silent, and unlike yourself, I do not get all freaked out about that.
And I’m not on that thread, because I really have nothing to say about how high or low the dunes are in Cape Charles.
The threads that I am on, tokenny, are usually threads where I was the original poster, which shoots your theory about me “hi-jacking” threads right in the foot because you can’t hijack something you started.
And while you ponder that, I hope you have yourself a very nice day.
Paul Plante says
Since you are being so observant, tokenny, and concerned about the number of people who are posting in here, versus merely reading, if you notice down at the bottom of the page, it states “Trending Now,” which are the hot topics on the CCM at any given moment in time.
Right now, those trending topics and the number of posts per topic are as follows:
New Timelapse Film of Eastern Shore by Jim Baugh – 2 COMMENTS
Sara Baldwin Attends Think Tank at the UN – 1 COMMENT
Cape Charles Taking a Trip Back to 1969 for the Summer of LOVE – 2 COMMENTS
Bailey’s Bait & Tackle Celebrates 50 Years – LEAVE A COMMENT
Fourth of July Activities in Cape Charles – LEAVE A COMMENT
end quotes
I think that goes to support my premise that more people read threads in here simply to read, than they do to post.
And note that I am absent from all those threads but one, which would seem to sink your premise that people don’t post in here because I scare them away, which was hogwash all along.
Blue Hoss says
He is a Vet… I for one will take up for him solely on that basis.
You need to show some respect to Vets.
Freedom is not Free.
Paul Plante says
Have you noticed, Hoss, that that really does not count for much in modern America, and in the case of a VEET NAM veteran, it is a distinct liability that can and has been used as a club to inflict blunt force trauma on someone’s professional reputation in a political setting, that with impunity, to wit:
10 April 2014
Hon. Barack Obama
United States President
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
Because I would not take bribes, Mr. President, in the words of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in early-1989, I upset “some of the most powerful men in Rensselaer County,” and my boss, the Rensselaer County public health director, could no longer “protect” me.
To my continued horror, on Wednesday, February 22, 1989, the Troy, New York RECORD, the newspaper of record for Rensselaer County in New York state ran an article wherein Deputy Rensselaer County Attorney Gordon Mayo was quoted as follows:
“Mayo said Plante suffers from a post-combat stress condition that could result in irrational behavior.”
“Plante is a Vietnam veteran.”
end quotes
There, Mr. President, is what stigmatization of combat veterans with PTSD as a means of political retaliation looks like in real life.
Because I would not take bribes, I was publicly branded by Rensselaer County as being “irrational.”
That label, which was pinned on myself and every other Viet Nam veteran, as well, has destroyed my life to this day.
Any hopes I might have had for being a good, productive American citizen, perhaps a person in the middle class, upon my return to this country from Viet Nam disappeared in smoke that day when that news article was published.
All Viet Nam veterans with PTSD suffer from a post-combat stress condition that could result in irrational behavior.
It is true because it was published in a newspaper of record and never retracted or refuted by a person of responsibility in the government.
All the years I spent rehabilitating myself as a productive citizen upon my return from Viet Nam, the years I spent in engineering school, the hours I spent getting a master’s degree on a fellowship from the USEPA so I could be a responsible public servant in America were all for naught, Mr. President.
After being publicly branded by the Deputy Rensselaer County Attorney, an authority figure, in the February 22, 1989 Troy, New York RECORD as being a Viet Nam veteran suffering from a post-combat stress condition that could result in irrational behavior, my career as a responsible, law-abiding public health engineer in service to the community was over, and my life as a fugitive began, for once the government has branded you as being irrational you can no longer fulfill the functions of an engineer, because you cannot be trusted with the public trust.
Respectfully,
Paul R. Plante
*****
THE WHITE HOUSE 5 AUGUST 2014
Dear Paul:
Thank you for writing, and for your service and sacrifice.
I appreciate the thoughtful messages I receive from Americans with deeply‑held views that may not always align with mine.
Dialogue on a broad range of issues is critical to moving forward in areas that matter to all of us.
When we disagree, even fiercely, it doesn’t mean we don’t each love this country and want to make it better.
As it has for more than two centuries, progress comes in fits and starts.
It’s not always a straight line or a smooth path, and recognizing we have shared hopes and dreams won’t end all gridlock, solve all problems, or substitute for the painstaking work of building consensus.
But we must find common ground and make difficult compromises to reach a better tomorrow.
Again, even if we don’t see every issue the same way, I want you to know I am listening and I appreciate your perspective.
Sincerely,
Barack Obama
end quotes
In other words, piss off and get lost, you don’t count in the America of Barack Hussein Obama.
Paul Plante says
Jack, that will take me longer to go all the way through than the Mullet Report, but I did come across this gem from yourself in your editorial, to wit:
I started to create that opinion and that statement on the fact that I even once sent you an e mail and informed you that you listed on this site a response wherein someone had dropped an f bomb in their opinion.
For you to let that pass, well I wonder how many whiskeys that took you.
It also obviously pointed out, that you need an editor.
On my suggestion, you did remove the f bomb, and you thanked me
end quotes
Jack, sorry to burst your bubble but none of that ever happened.
You never e-mailed me, because you don’t know how to, me never having shared such personal information with you, and I never used an F-bomb, as you call it, in any of my posts, so I never removed one, nor could I have, given I have no ability whatsoever to come back in here to edit a post once it has been submitted.
And Jack, I haven’t a clue as to Elaine Luria is, I have never met the lady, and she don’t know me, never having met me in her lifetime, so where you get that idea she might know me and not like me for some reason unknown to me eludes me.
As to Ms, Giddings Ivory, Jack, if you would go back and review the actual record, these are the words you will see her flinging in our face as slingshots and arrows and hurled at us, trying to back us into corners and confront and insult us, to wit:
June 27, 2019 at 9:09 pm
When we are treated like Americans with full voting, education rights and equal economic access, we may then be able to drop the hyphen.
end quotes
That, Jack, is the very overtly political statement from Ms, Giddings Ivory that turned this from a “conversation,” which it really wasn’t in the first place, given the clearly political nature of the original post, into the debate it subsequently became after Ms. Giddings Ivory threw that in our faces, thus provoking the responses that challenge deserved.
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Because my name is being tossed around in these comments, I thought I would give readers something to see as to what makes me tick. I have a memoir, “World View from Elenora Giddings Ivory Tower: The Life and Times of a Religious Advocate” found on Amazon. (This is a tongue in cheek title) http://markets.financialcontent.com/stocks/news/read?GUID=37163004
Or you can just google me.
I am hesitant to post this, as I am sure it may unleash more vitriol that I will have to ignore. But, I pray, that it might garner real information. I entered here originally, to simply find information on George Giddings whose name is on the WWI plague and am surprised that no one seems to know anything. Who is the Northampton historian? Is there one at the library who would have information about the names on the plague? Is there an email or a link to some information? I will try FOLD3 military web search also. Thank you for listening.
Paul Plante says
It was very nice meeting you!
Paul Plante says
You are obviously a very accomplished lady and your book sounds interesting.
Elenora Giddings Ivory says
Mr. Plante,
Thank you for the compliment.
Elenora Giddings Ivory
Paul Plante says
And I sincerely hope you have a wonderful day!
Paul Plante says
The fact that the plaque exists with those names on it indicates that at one point in time, somebody knew enough about all those people, to have that plaque made with their names on it.
But that was a hundred years ago now.
The research that needs to be done concerns how the plaque came into being in the first place, so a question to be asked is did Cape Charles have a historian 100 years ago when the plaque was made, or was it made by some civic or patriotic group as was the case back then, and presented to whomever that caused it to end up in the library.
Paul Plante says
Checking further, I came across this possible lead for you, to wit:
CAPE CHARLES MEMORIAL LIBRARY
Board of Trustees Meeting
May 9, 2018
The regular monthly meeting of the Cape Charles Memorial Library Board of Trustees
was called to order by the Chairman, Roger Moyer, at 5:04 p.m.
Board members present were: Roger Moyer, Chris Bannon, Cathy Fox, Kim Dunton, Nancy Vest, and Dianne Davis; and Ann Rutledge, Library Director. Absent: Karen Mahaffy
Nancy distributed copies of some WWI soldiers from the Eastern Shore that were
missing from the original list.
https://capecharles.municipalcms.com//files/documents/LibraryBoardAgenda06-27-18091134062018AM1468.pdf
end quotes
There is a good place to start, since it seems there are records in existence that might help you answer your question.
Les Moore says
Forget the race divisions permanently recorded for history on this plaque. What about the larger issue?
Yes, there was segregation of men by race, this plaque records that and so is valuable as a reminder of our checkered history. However, to concentrate on race exclusively ignores the issue of gender.
Nowhere on this plaque do we see any sign of distaste for or symbol denoting the inequality of those days in who went to war.
Even today we require only men to sign up for Selective Service, despite touting the role of women in combat. In WWI women fully supported the legal enslavement, via the draft, of males within the military system. Mothers raised little boys, colored and white, to ‘do their duty’ (i.e., to be killed to maintain the status quo of the Matriarchy’s freedom from having to go to war to ensure their own protection). Little girls were taught and constantly reinforced in the view that the horrors of war were what makes are made for…a belief we still see enshrined in the current Selective Service rules.
Perhaps the plaque should be removed, but let us put in it’s place a graphic showing women and girls laughing, playing and having a good time while dipping their toes and their cups of plenty into a pool of the comingled blood of the colored and white boys they sent to their deaths in WWI.