Special Opinion to the Cape Charles Mirror by Chas Cornweller
I watched in awe this past weekend of young children (I am in my sixties, so anyone under forty is considered young to me – anyone under twenty is still a child in my eyes) taking to the streets and soapboxes of this nation to inform this nation, that they are mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore. In fact, not only are they mad as hell, but they are frightened, confused, and somewhat disappointed in the very people they expected to protect them and keep them safe during their childhood, adults.
I watched in awe as many spoke eloquently with dignity and purpose. Some used theater, expression mixed with pathos, and with strength to get their points across. Some were as young as eleven years of age! In Washington D.C. there were upwards to half a million souls, reaching out to the rest of the nation for answers and for help in reaching those answers. It was peaceful and it was strong. And more importantly, it shows no signs of waning anytime soon.
I am old enough to remember the protests of the sixties. The main issue then, was, what was the sense of justice in, of sending a young man half-way around the world to kill and subjugate a people, we had no issues with. Tag lines; such as Chinese involvement, Soviet involvement and Domino Theory, came from the mouths of politicians and government officials and permeated the media. These, along with the phrases, Hearts and Minds, appeasement, draw-down, guerrilla warfare, Vietnamization, ceasefire, Paris Peace Accords, were the political propaganda of the day. Conversely, young people protested and carried signs that read, Hell No, We Won’t Go, Ban the Bomb, End the War, Veterans for Peace and Power to the People. There was a sense that societal issues were losing to a war driven by issues that no one seemed to be able to do anything about. So, the youth rallied and took to the streets. If you watch the timeline, you will see that the movement started fairly quietly and relatively peacefully. In 1965 thru 1967, most marches were smaller and quieter, spurred on by passionate and intelligent speeches. But by the time of the Democratic Convention of 1968 in Chicago, the mood began to change. With out of control police and rampant brutality (both televised and chastised on the international front) the youth of America began taking a hard look at their parent’s generation (and the authority then in place) and began to outwardly and physically rebel. In many places, the marches turned violent and ugly. The war dragged on for a number of years, only to be lost in the end. And for America to be told, eventually, the government knew that it was fighting an unjust and losing (War) only to have dragged it out due to politics, fear of losing face in the international community and a fear of a backlash from the real enemy, the Communists states of China and Russia. It did not come in the expected way. We (American Government) opened the door on Cambodia and Laos. We infiltrated two neutral countries only to pave the way for lesser and more violent actors to step in and fill that void, once we pulled out. It’s what we do…we are good at it. Cuba, Chile, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya…the list is long. And growing…
So, now, I watch the youth of America, again…stand up for a right. A right to live in peace and the right to live in freedom from fear. To live in a world where their schools are safe. Where the streets are safe. A world where they know the neighborhood police on their beat. A neighborhood where they know the neighbors and where it is safe to ride a bike or walk to the corner store, without having to look over their shoulder at every vehicle coming up on them. Places where there are no guns and if there are, one has chosen to be or not be there. I am speaking of hunting clubs, not diners. A world where there is no squeamishness over a weapon, because there is no need to be afraid. A world where people are aware of others and what they must feel, knowing that folks respect one another. Yes, there will always be strangers out there. There will be a share of crazies as well. THAT, has been going on a long time now…forever. But, we are a modern society with a lot of ills. As a modern society, it is now time to start addressing those ills. One of those ills is a part of society that puts ownership of a weapon over the cost of children’s (and adults’) safety and well-being. A segment of our society feels that the right to own a weapon (any weapon, short of an Abram’s Tank) is a just and God-given right. They say, if you take the AR-15 off the shelf, then some crazy will just use another weapon. That is true. And it is also, true…if ALL the guns were taken off the shelf and ALL the ammunition was taken away, someone, somewhere would use a knife. Or a bomb, or a car…the list is endless. What I am saying is, if, the ban on AR-15’s came through and a limit on cartridge/magazine size/amounts was placed, then these children would see adults doing what adults are supposed to do. Listening, acting and changing their world for the better.
If you are so predisposed to blindly hold onto your weapon as if your very own life depended on that weapon, then you have a fundamental problem with understanding this modern society. IF you see this as the slippery slope to regime change in our government and an affront to your ability to stop this change, then, you have a fundamental problem with modern society. If you believe that amending the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights to jibe with a more modern stance is wrong and dangerous, then you have a fundamental problem with modern society. If you feel that the industrial overkill of modern weapons is just part of a healthy robust capitalist society and your right as a buyer of those weapons, then you have a fundamental problem with modern society.
Lastly, I don’t begrudge hunters. I don’t begrudge homeowners who want to protect their property. But, hunters don’t use AK-15’s to hunt…anything. Homeowners mostly use short barrels or shotguns for home protection. These weapons hold anywhere from nine to three rounds. Most likely, enough to stave off a home invasion. I don’t begrudge these folks…guns have a place. But if you own an AK-15 for home invasion, then you are probably expecting the Zombie Apocalypse or worst. There simply is no need to own a AK-15. There is no need to own a hundred rounds of anything. The best hunters I know have only shot upwards to a hundred dove or so on an exceptional day. They were using scatter shot/bird load and cross referenced a field. And they were damned fine shots.
My point is this. Our children have taken the reins on gun regulation issues. Just as children of the sixties took the reins on ending the war. They have spoken and what they are saying rings true. Are they being naïve? Are they lashing out only to wear down and move on to something else next week? Are they just blindly stupid as to what America really wants as its death toll rises along with weekly ratings on the news channels and more and more guns hit the streets as fear mounts and society collapses. Personally, I think none of this is their modus operandi. I think they are being the wise ones and calling out the rest of us to get it together and act on this issue now. And if we treat this with flippancy, with a turned ear or apathy… change will come. Whether you have a fundamental place in this or not. The proverbial warning shot was fired over the bow this weekend. We, as a nation, should listen and offer sound advice on the ways this problem should be and can be, addressed.
Sorry, no.
First up, the 2nd amendment isn’t about hunting and all it would take is a 5 minute internet search to find that out.
Why didn’t you?
Next up, what you perceived as “Our children taking the reins” was actually a frightening first in American. Citizens demonstrating for the government to take away civil rights.
And lastly, we are thrilled that your mask is off. Numerous progressives are now saying out loud what we knew all along.
You DO want our guns.
Thank you.
Chas Cornweller, you have a heart as big as all outdoors, if not bigger, and if the people of America today in reality were as plastic and conforming as those in Plato’s Republic, what a great world it would be.
But as the Greeks themselves proved over and over with all of their wars and their ostrakízō in Athens and their political dirty dealing, and their ultimate failure as a nation, the plastic people in Plato’s Republic were never real, nor are they in your ideal world, Chas Cornweller.
Many of us, Chas Cornweller live in the reality we have, not the ideal one in your mind, God bless you for it, and in that real world, it is we who are tasked with keeping ourselves and our families safe, not some incompetent government hundreds or thousands of miles away in the foetid swamp of Washington. D.C.
So put me down, Chas Cornweller, at the very top of your list of those who have a problem with what you call “modern society.”
In your essay, which is very long on emotion and passion but woefully short on facts or viable solutions to the plethora of serious problems which afflict this pitiful nation today, you say you watched in awe this past weekend of young children taking to the streets and soapboxes of this nation to inform this nation, that they are mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore.
Good for you and good for them.
They now join the other hundreds of millions of us who have been mad as hell for the last twenty years or more, and still have to take it, because we have NO SOLUTIONS to the madness and chaos and insanity that are engulfing this nation.
So these children you worship can take their place in that long line anywhere they wish.
Then you say, “In fact, not only are they mad as hell, but they are frightened, confused, and somewhat disappointed in the very people they expected to protect them and keep them safe during their childhood, adults.”
There is a statement with a lot of red meat in it, Chas Cornweller, and thank you for feeding it to us.
The children as you call them are very definitely confused, and frightened by the smallest shadow on the wall.
WHY, Chas Cornweller?
Why are they confused?
What exactly are they confused about?
And who is confusing them?
And what exactly are they frightened of, Chas Cornweller?
You bring these points up eloquently on behalf of these confused and frightened children, and then you do as you always do, you walk away without providing answers while casting the blame for this confusion of these children onto those of us who do not agree with you, and in some cases, actually feel you are full of **** for doing so.
Don’t give us more emotion, Chas Cornweller, give us facts.
You say you watched in awe as many spoke eloquently with dignity and purpose.
I followed the press reports, Chas Cornweller, and I guess I missed the eloquence with dignity part.
What I heard on the radio news sounded like a bunch of wild animals howling and baying and making grunting noises.
My ears therefore, are not as sensitive to nuance as are yours, but given that I am older, that is to be expected, I would suppose.
You say that in Washington D.C. there were upwards to half a million souls, reaching out to the rest of the nation for answers and for help in reaching those answers.
What answers do you have for them, Chas Cornweller, because frankly, I have none.
Not knowing what frightens them, and nebulous fear itself cannot be considered rational, I have no way of comforting them, especially as I am older than eighteen, and thus, in the minds of these frightened and confused children, am an enemy not to be listened to, I have no answers for them that they are going to want to hear.
Not knowing what confuses them and who has confused them and, why that was done, again, Chas Cornweller, I have no answers for them.
And Chas Cornweller, have you personally ever tried to have a rational, meaningful conversation with someone who is confused?
In my experience, it is not possible to have such a conversation, especially when those who are so confused are as hostile as these frightened children are.
And then you get back to your ideal world as follows:
“So, now, I watch the youth of America, again…stand up for a right.”
“A right to live in peace and the right to live in freedom from fear.”
end quotes
Where have you dredged up that “right” from Chas Cornweller, besides from your very fertile imagination?
That is an ideal, Chas Cornweller, a pipe dream, not a “right,” because a right is something that can be vindicated.
The only way to live in freedom from fear is to not be afraid.
Don’t you remember FDR, Chas Cornweller: “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!”
And then you continue on as follows:
“To live in a world where their schools are safe.”
“Where the streets are safe.”
“A world where they know the neighborhood police on their beat.”
“A neighborhood where they know the neighbors and where it is safe to ride a bike or walk to the corner store, without having to look over their shoulder at every vehicle coming up on them.”
“Places where there are no guns and if there are, one has chosen to be or not be there.”
“A world where there is no squeamishness over a weapon, because there is no need to be afraid.”
“A world where people are aware of others and what they must feel, knowing that folks respect one another.”
end quotes
Outside of your imagination and your memories of your childhood, Chas Cornweller, pray tell, where is that world today?
I can tell you the last place it should have been, which is in tony, affluent, upscale Parkland, Florida, a modern planned community where riff-raff who carry guns to kill frightened and confused children are not allowed.
There is where these frightened and confused children should have been able to feel safe, and yet they weren’t.
WHY, Chas Cornweller?
WHY did the parents of upscale Parkland, Florida fail their frightened and confused children so miserably, because that is where the blame must lie, Chas Cornweller, with the people of Parkland, Florida who failed these children, not with the 300 plus million people of the United States of America.
Is it because they were too busy out making money to keep their own children safe from harm, because that, Chas Cornweller, is the responsibility of an adult parent.
It is not my responsibility to keep children in Parkland, Florida safe.
I doubt they would even let me in to try, given that I am poor, and thus not wanted down there.
Then you say, “But, we are a modern society with a lot of ills,” which is an understatement, and you follow that up by saying “As a modern society, it is now time to start addressing those ills.”
How is that to be done, Chas Cornweller?
You are expecting a mentally-ill nation to be its own psychiatrist to tell itself why it is so sick?
And then you put your ignorance of the world outside your own living room on display when you say “But, hunters don’t use AK-15’s to hunt…anything.”
More horse ****, Chas Cornweller.
First of all, it is not an AK-15, it is an AR-15, and yes, Chas Cornweller, it is in fact a hunting rifle for those who use it as such, and having been in as many combat assaults as you have been, plus quite a few more, I can tell you that I would as soon use a pitchfork or spade shovel to assault a hedgerow or machine gun position where real people are firing back with real bullets, as I would use a semi-automatic AR-15, which looks like what someone who didn’t know better would think an assault weapon would look like, but isn’t.
That would be like racing a Volkswagon Beetle at the Indy 500 and expecting to win.
And then you conclude: “The proverbial warning shot was fired over the bow this weekend and We, as a nation, should listen and offer sound advice on the ways this problem should be and can be, addressed.”
After you, Chas Cornweller.
When you have figured out how all of the problems of this sick and frightened and confused nation can be addressed, let the rest of us know, and we will act on them.
And thank you for your citizenship, Chas Cornweller, and speaking out as you did, it is appreciated.
Funk those little, liberal brats……..MOLON LABE!
Mr. Plante, Thank you for taking the time to reply this Op:Ed. I agree with your opinion above.
Sadly, I feel the concept of holding your head up and face towards the enemy is lost on more and more people these days. What could help us all immediately seems clear to me. Harden soft targets, see something, say something, stay focused on your surroundings, harden soft targets, (yes I said that twice), etc.; You know, practical things that we can do right now.
The world we live in brings evil to Mayberry. History tells us it always has. The people of Mayberry would be better served by not dozing off on the front porch and doing something a little more realistic than embarking on “gun-control” mission. WAKE UP AMERICA!!
Again, thanks for putting to words what I was thinking. I’m gonna catch some heat for heat for sounding off in here so “nuff” said… I’ll just slip back to being quiet, watching, listening, considering and VOTING.
John, you understand that “soft targets”, “hardening soft targets”, etc are military terms. So we harden soft targets, I assume you mean schools. What’s next?
1. Churches
2. Malls
3. County Fairs
4.Sports Arenas
5. Hospitals
6. Museums
7. Zoos
8. Movie Theaters
9. Auditoriums/Stages
10. Super Markets
11. Beaches
12. We could keep going.
Your proposal doesn’t rid Mayberry of evil, it destroys Mayberry. So instead of addressing gun violence /gun control lets just spend millions of dollars on “hardening” our soft targets and destroying the fabric of society. Think about that while you stand in the security line, waiting for your turn to be “wanded” before entering the DMV.
Mayberry was destroyed long ago, tkenny.
For most people alive today, especially the young ones, it isn’t even a memory.
I think it is now covered over by an upscale mall and several gated communities.
And affluent, upscale Parkland, Florida, a “planned community” where things like this just were not supposed to happen, because the riff-raff who do this **** weren’t to be allowed in, in the first place, is as far from Mayberry as one can get …
I live in a more rural, much less affluent area where everybody and his brother is armed and has been all my life, and we aren’t seeing people being gunned down on a daily basis at our Churches, Malls (although you can get slashed at upscale Crossgates Mall up here by some prospective member of the Bloods making his initiation cuts), County Fairs, Sports Arenas, Hospitals, Museums, Zoos, Movie Theaters, Auditoriums/Stages, Super Markets, Beaches and we could keep going.
Why do you think that is, tkenny?
What makes us different from Parkland, Florida, Chicago, Illinois, and Baltimore, Maryland in that regard?
The candid world who wonders about this sick and mentally-ill nation would really like to know, and so would I.
Paul, there is nothing wrong with “Planned Communities”. In fact they are an attempt to bring back that “Mayberry” feel. Mayberry died during your generation’s watch – your generation flocked to malls, your generation fed the suburban sprawl. Your generation started the decline of small towns. Take the rose colored glasses off, your generation drove us here during the feel good days after WWII.
Do not think for a moment that your rural community is immune from this violence. You are no different than those other places. Statistically, you probably have a better chance of getting hit by a car then dying in a mass shooting
tkenny, dude, above here I compared our dear friend and debating partner Chas Cornweller to none other than McGeorge Bundy, held to be the intellectual of all the intellectuals America ever produced in her long history, when it comes to debating skills, and you are in that class, as well, as you so amply demonstrated right above here in your analysis of the demise of Mayberry in America.
As to there being nothing wrong with “Planned Communities,” tkenny, if you are for them, as you seem to be, then there clearly is nothing wrong with them in your mind, and who am I to try and disabuse you of that notion, especially if you are a real estate developer making your money off the things that you say are an attempt to bring back that “Mayberry” feel.
But you can’t make “Mayberry” out of plastic, tkenny, and have it be real.
Like Disneyland, it is fake, and that fakeness is quite perceivable to someone who is not a Stepford Wife, which is why there is trouble in the planned paradise of Parkland, Florida, where unreality was imposed on reality by zoning board fiat.
You say Mayberry died during my generation’s watch, and I suppose that could be true if examined more closely.
It is more proper, however, and more intelligent, to say that while the rest of us were unable to stop them, and in my case, tkenny, you personally know this to be very true, members of my generation were out there raping the land for profit, and burying Mayberry and its environs under the shopping malls my generation’s children such as yourself flocked to, and yes, members of my generation fed the suburban sprawl, but actually, that started with Leavittown on Long Island after WWII, which was your grandfather’s generation, tkenny, not mine.
And the decline of small towns started after WWII, as well, tkenny, although the big money my generation was able to earn accelerated that process.
As to rose colored glasses, tkenny, the craze started by John Lennon back when never caught me up in it.
I never had time in my life for rose-colored glasses, tkenny. so I can’t take them off.
And yes, tkenny, the feel good days after WWII when the Democrats had been in charge with the New Deal for the last twenty years are the catalyst that brought us to here, but what can we do about that now, tkenny?
Once the Democrats opened Pandora’s Box with their licentiousness and great give-aways, can anything that came out when the lid came off ever be put back in?
History says no. once the cycle has been started, it has to play though all the way, so here we are today, watching anything and everything goes “democracy” collapse in chaos around us.
And as to my thinking, even for a moment, that my once-rural community is immune from this violence, you are dead on the money when you say that today it is no different than those other places, and in fact, with the heroin epidemic up here, it might be worse.
Didn’t used to be that way, tkenny, but then your generation came along and introduced society to all these pain meds and psych meds given to children when they are young, and now the world out there is something an older person like myself no longer recognizes.
As to statistically, I probably have a better chance of getting hit by a car then dying in a mass shooting, that would be so if I was stupid enough to walk in traffic, or if I went to any place where masses of people go.
I don’t.
And you, tkenny, have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than you do getting into a mass shooting situation.
So when you see dark clouds in the sky, tkenny, please, because we would miss your wit and wisdom otherwise, take the hint and get in out of the rain.
The life you save will be your own.
And the part the Left can’t seem to see, Paul is that it was those very same ‘protestors’ in the 60’s that destroyed Mayberry.
No men in dresses in Mayberry, nor people making excuses for their mental illness.
No deviant sex acts lauded and celebrated in Mayberry.
Courtesy ran rampant in Mayberry, but hey if it feels good do it, and if it DOESN’T feel good, s crew it. Out went those old standards of decency.
LOTSA God in Mayberry, but the liberals and progressives like Chas there chased Him right out the door of the Public Spaces.
Gee, Chas, can you even see the destruction and horror YOU and your ilk in the 60’s spewed upon the world?
Progressives and liberals never look in the rear-view mirror to see what it was they just ran over.
Bless your heart.
I am over 50, and a Vet. I have never ‘played’ any call of duty, I lived it.
You Sir, are a damned fool if there ever was one. It is pure bliss, is it not? Your ignorance, that is.
Thanks for your service, slide.
Paul Plante, well said. Thank you for taking the time, listing the facts, and engaging in an educated discussion.
One of the more pervasive issues confronting the United States in recent years is the confusion between, and acceptance of, “feeling” for “thinking”. While often heartfelt, arguments based on “feeling” rather than “thinking” place our society at substantial risk.
A current example of this is the emotional letter provided by Chas Cornweller, “I watched in awe this past weekend”. Apparently Mr. Cornweller thinks the recent demonstrations are a Children’s Crusade, organized and coordinated by high school students. In fact, they were not. They were funded by members of the Hollywood elite, including George Clooney and Oprah Winfrey, to the tune of $500,000 each. According to an article published last week in the Washington Post, only about 10% of those attending the Washington, DC, protest were children.
Although he uses eloquent language, much of what Mr. Cornweller says is, in fact, nonsense. By parsing a few of his paragraphs it becomes clear that, although he “feels” very strongly about this issue, he has done little “thinking” about it.
“…if ALL the guns were taken off the shelf and ALL the ammunition was taken away, someone, somewhere would use a knife. Or a bomb, or a car…the list is endless.”
Where to start? How about with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire. We need not worry so much about knives or bombs or cars as we need worry about gasoline. Sold on most street corners with no ID required, no age limit, no waiting period, the agent of mass destruction that was used to murder nearly 90 young people by someone who was angry and did not have a gun.
“… if, the ban on AR-15’s came through and a limit on cartridge/magazine size/amounts was placed, then these children would see adults doing what adults are supposed to do. Listening, acting and changing their world for the better.”
If Mr. Cornweller had any experience or training related to guns, law enforcement, or the military, he would understand that schools are not hard targets. Rarely is there any passive defense, and even more rarely is there active defense (a notable exception occurred a couple of weeks ago in Maryland. In that situation, a school resource officer engaged and neutralized a teen-aged shooter, unlike the situation in Florida where Sheriff’s deputies hid behind their cars.). One does not need an AR-15 to wreak havoc among unarmed persons, especially children. Nor does one need “high capacity” magazines. The truth of both of this was demonstrated at Va Tech where a seriously mentally ill student passed background checks and purchased two handguns and 10-round (NOT high capacity by anyone’s definition), and went on to kill over 30 people. Indeed, the Florida terrorist used 10 round magazines in his killing spree. And as any hunter, police officer, or service member knows, at close range, such as shooting children in schools, nothing is more devastating than a shotgun.
“…I don’t begrudge hunters. I don’t begrudge homeowners who want to protect their property.”
Well, you do begrudge them, Mr. Cornweller. What kind of guns do homeowners protect their property (and lives) with? They protect most often with handguns, the instrument used most frequently in homicide. They protect them with shotguns, a devastating weapon at close ranges. They protect them with hunting rifles, the kind used to kill President Kennedy, the kind used to kill about 15 people at the University of Texas Library Tower, and the kind used to kill Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. And they protect them with AR-15s.
“But, hunters don’t use AK-15’s to hunt…anything.”
Mr. Cornweller, I could say “wrong again,” but “nonsense” is more appropriate. You write nonsense.
“There is no need to own a hundred rounds of anything. ”
Please, Mr. Cornweller. Either you are lying or you are so ignorant as to no credibility. One can easily go through over 100 rounds in a day at the skeet range, and hundreds of rounds a day at the pistol or rifle range.
“The best hunters I know have only shot upwards to a hundred dove or so on an exceptional day.”
Apparently the best hunters you know have no respect for game or hunting laws.
Mr. Cornweller, your letter reeks of emotion, with “feeling” dripping from your words. But your letter is devoid of “thought”, and you need to be called for writing such nonsense.
I freely admit that I write with “emotion”, it’s known in some “cerebral” circles as “heart”. I am sorry that you weren’t issued one, David Cowen. So, let’s break down your “thinking man’s” comment.
Yes, I DID watch in awe at those children standing up for themselves on national television. The very same kids the like of you have been disparaging for years now. Ridiculing them about getting outside and looking up from their smartphones or computer screens. So, they finally take a stand for something and it’s your pacifier they want. Was that emotional enough for you? Who gives a flying leap who sponsors these kids? And the fact that ninety percent attended were adults, speaks for itself.
And I truly apologize for not “thinking” as hard as you. For, no, I didn’t come up with the “gasoline” angle. Glad to know you are thinking this through. I didn’t envision flying planes into tall buildings either, way back in ’99, but, I am sure you were way ahead of that curve. My point was clearly missed on you, David. Much of my article was. Thinking indeed.
My points about ammunition amounts goes directly to the point of securing these “soft targets” as you tough minded, clear thinking, heartless ghouls want to classify them. Just try and duplicate the terror and the tally of Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech with just a handgun. You see, you folks with such cerebral capacity and great thoughts keep throwing in the “Well, handguns are killing folks every day in Chicago, or Richmond or Tallahassee, for all we know.” And yes, giant brain, you are correct. But, how many at a time? Thirty? Or even twenty? It is the number of ballistic shoots that drive the kill score up. THE NUMBER AMOUNT! Can you not get that through? Do you not realize that?
I stated that hunters don’t use AK-15’s to hunt…anything. You called out non-sense. How so? State one animal (besides man) that you would hunt with an AK-15? ONE. That’s all I ask.
Sure, you can go to the range to fire off a hundred rounds, two thousand for all I care. But, if you are stocking a thousand rounds in your house for some future stand-off…I am a little concerned for you. Especially, if your child has issues at home or at school or in their peer circle and their emotion state gets to the point of lashing out. And you should be concerned as well. Locked up and the key well hidden. Such a good parent and smart too…But, you do know who else is smart as well?
Lastly, the government is not coming for all the guns. Hell, I’d be happy if they just created a national data base to track all gun buyers. Did you know that the NRA has fought and blocked a national data base for decades now? How about you do some research. Start with FOPA (1986). That should keep your great mind busy for a while. While you are at it, look up other areas where the NRA has been so helpful in keeping America safe and snug. Such as blocking research for mental health and gun ownership by the CDC. Brilliant! Just brilliant.
So, in closing…am I emotional about this issue? You bet your last round I am! Do I hope these kids succeed, I sure as hell hope they do. My dear David Cowan, you speak of thinking and reasoning this thing out. There is no reasoning with an emotionally charged and disabled gun carrier. Especially one with a banana clip holding thirty rounds. Especially standing in a (as your fellow pro-NRA member John Hickman said) “soft target area”. (do you hear how that sounds?) He is speaking of schools, libraries, movie theaters, churches…the corner market. And as Paul said…”Mayberry was destroyed long ago”. I think, sadly, I’d have to concur. But, not because Andy didn’t carry a gun. America is being destroyed every day with intolerance, injustice, lack of will, fear, greed, insatiable power and all its motives of imperialism. ALL of that trickles down to you and I and eats at us like acid rain. And it has eaten away the heart of America. We no longer are a thinking nation with a heart. Just brawn. Bombastic and pushing our agenda of greed throughout the world. The sad thing is, we can’t even save our own children here. THAT, I think you and I can agree on. Think about it.
My dear friend, debating partner and fellow American Patriot Chas Cornweller, dude, GREETINGS!
Life is lively in here when you jump into the fray as you have done above where you rip into David Cowan tooth and nails and shred his arguments to bits with your gnashing teeth and rending claws.
Well, done, Chas Cornweller.
That places you in high company, indeed, when it comes to being a master of the art of debate, as you so obviously are.
Before, I have compared you to a modern-day Quintus Hortensius Hortalus, whose oratory, much like yours, and this according to Cicero, whose word I accept on these matters taking place when he was alive, was of the Asiatic style, a florid rhetoric, as is yours, better, some might say, although I wouldn’t be one of them, to hear than to read.
You surely must recall Quintus Hortensius Hortalus from your own classical studies, Chas Cornweller – even though his gestures were highly artificial, some critics would say, anyway, but then, Chas Cornweller, you know critics, they have to be critical of something, don’t they, or people will drift over to someone else who is, such as these children you are so in awe of, his manner of folding his toga was noted by tragic actors of the day, he was such a “gifted performer that even professional actors would stop rehearsal and come to watch him hold an audience captive with each swish of his toga.”
As I read your words above where you shred David Cowan, I can see you in my mind’s eye (I read books, so I admit to having an active imagination able to picture Chas Cornweller in the forum in ancient Rome) marching back and forth before the candid world, swishing and folding your toga just like Quintus Hortensius Hortalus, and it is pretty awesome, all in all, Chas Cornweller.
Perhaps some enterprising soul down there in Cape Charles can cull from all your postings in here your various speeches to catch your unique style, and then whip up a script for summer stock on Cape Cod, or even Cape Charles, this year with you as the model for a modern portrayal of Quintus Hortensius Hortalus at the bar defending Appius Claudius Pulcher when accused by Publius Cornelius Dolabella of treason and corrupt practices; who in addition to his style, had a tenacious memory, and could retain every point in his opponent’s argument, as you have demonstrated to us above so clearly, and he also possessed a fine musical voice, which he could skillfully command.
He also wrote, Chas Cornweller, a treatise on general questions of oratory, erotic poems, and an Annales, which gained him considerable reputation as a historian.
But enough of the past and Quintus Hortensius Hortalus, today, I see you as a modern-day incarnation of JFK’s favorite orator, one of the best America has ever produced, none other than McGeorge Bundy, Chas Cornweller!
With your shredding of David Cowan above, that is the height you have reached!
As to your challenge above to David Cowan to show you the beef as to what animals an AR-15 is used to hunt, none other than Time magazine, a news outlet you can trust, Chas Cornweller had an article on that exact subject entitled “Here Are 7 Animals Hunters Kill Using an AR-15″ by Will Drabold on July 6, 2016, where we were informed as follows:
After the Orlando nightclub shooting, Democrats criticized the routine sale of the type of semiautomatic rifle used by Omar Mateen.
Hillary Clinton called them “weapons of war.”
Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin said that if you used a gun like the AR-15 — or the similar Sig Sauer used in Orlando — to go hunting “you should stick to fishing.”
But many gun owners say they use semiautomatic rifles to hunt regularly.
In interviews with TIME, leaders of 15 state shooting groups said semiautomatic rifles are popular with hunters in their states.
Hunters say they favor the gun for its versatility, accuracy and customizable features for shooting animals.
The semiautomatic feature, which allows these guns to shoot up to 45 rounds a minute, is not always necessary, but useful in some situations, hunters say.
“It’s the most capable tool for the job at this time,” said Eric Mayer, who runs AR15hunter.com.
“Bar none.”
“Period.”
“It is.”
end quotes
First of all, Chas Cornweller, to put this aspect of the debate finally and firmly to bed, Hillary Clinton knows ****-all about war, or pretty much anything else for that matter, related to it, so she is simply talking out of her *** when she calls the civilian, semi-automatic AR-15 a “weapon of war.”
And based on my own experience of war, where there were people with what I would call superior “weapons of war” than the piece of crap the U.S. government and its people issued us in the form of the M-16 firing at us with the intent to kill, wound or maim, in that situation, everything is a “weapon of war,” including and starting with the rock I use to take your superior weapon from you with, so it is only in that context that Hillary Clinton is correct, and if “weapons of war” is the category of things to be banned in this country, along with the AR-15, which in the mind of Hillary Clinton looks like something she thinks somebody going into real combat would use to assault things like tanks, and machine-gun positions and bamboo hedgerows and thick jungle and such, then rocks, ball-point pens, garden rakes, scythes, spade shovels, cast iron frying pans, etc. have to be banned as well, along with pointy-toe shoes like the ones Don King used to stomp that dude to death in Cleveland back when.
Now, Chas Cornweller, there is a real “assault weapon” right there – the pointy-toe shoe.
So why isn’t Hillary Clinton running her mouth about them?
As to how attitudes change in America, Chas Cornweller, towards acts of violence in this age of political correctness the Progressive Democrats have presented us with, for stomping that dude to death as he did, the Cleveland City Council gave the honorary name of “Don King Way” to a stretch of Cedar Avenue in Cleveland where the legendary boxing promoter once stomped a man to death for failing to pay a $600 gambling debt.
Whether they feature a chalk outline of the dead dude or not as a tourist attraction, not being from there, I frankly cannot say.
Several people interviewed by cleveland.com back then noted that King is among the most influential Clevelanders ever to make it big.
King, once known as “The Kid,” became infamous on that street during the 1960s for his illegal bookmaking operation, and in 1966, King stomped an employee, Sam Garrett, to death outside the now-defunct Manhattan Tap Room at East 100th Street and Cedar Avenue.
Journalist Jack Newfield — in his 1995 unauthorized biography, “The Life and Crimes of Don King: The shame of boxing in America” — described King’s beating of Garrett like this:
King kept stomping the smaller man.
Most people would have stopped by now.
Most people would have felt satisfaction, or remorse, or some cathartic release by now.
But not King.
Some bully demon deep inside him kept the violence going beyond reason.
end quotes
So today, the dude has the street where that happened named for him, and there is a message in there for the youth of America that perhaps you and tkenny can unravel for us if you can.
And when confronted with that testimony from TIME above about the AR-15 being a hunting rifle, not a “weapon of war,” dear friend and protagonist Chas Cornweller, do you still doubt David Cowan?
Yes, I bet you do, so let’s move on by going back to TIME as follows:
TIME spoke with seven hunters who use semiautomatic guns like the AR-15.
Jay Perreira, Hawaii: Hunting feral goats
Jonathan Owen, Texas: Hunting feral pigs
Across the southern United States, wild pigs cause $1.5 billion in annual property damage.
Boar can weigh up to 300 pounds, run up to 30 miles per hour and in Jonathan Owen’s experience, quickly turn violent.
“You do not have to hunt with an AR-15,” Owen, an Abilene, Texas resident who runs SHWAT.com, told TIME.
“But the practical benefits of being able to engage a lot of pigs at a time, safely, is a big win.”
The semiautomatic and large capacity magazine features allow Owen to take several shots at multiple pigs in a few seconds.
When engaging a pack of wild pigs in west-Texas’ shrubbery, Owen says these features ensure his safety.
“Hog hunting can be the pursuit of dangerous game,” Owen said.
“They can turn on you.”
end quotes
Any denials to any of that, Chas Cornweller?
Do you think he is an actor hired by the NRA as a shill to talk about hunting pigs, when he never has and doesn’t know a pig from a poodle?
Getting back to TIME:
Eric Mayer, Arizona: Hunting antelope jackrabbits
Gary Marbut, Montana: Hunting elk
A firearms instructor and longtime gun rights advocate, Gary Marbut hunts with the larger caliber cousin of the AR-15: the AR-10. Marbut’s rifle is still semiautomatic, but fires with more power.
Many hunters say the standard caliber, or diameter of the bullet, of an AR-15 is preferable for hunting smaller animals.
The average power of the shot can be less than a standard hunting shotgun.
For Marbut to successfully hunt elk that weigh at least 500 pounds, the larger bullet is a must.
Marbut, 69, first used the AR-platform during three years he spent in the military.
Adopted by the U.S. military in the 1960s, the M-16 is the fully automatic version of the AR.
The military still uses a variant of the gun.
George Sodergren, Maine: Hunting coyotes
Will Chambers, Michigan: Hunting deer
Kenny Gallahorn, Alaska: Hunting spotted seal
end quotes
Back to you, Chas Cornweller!
What is an AK-15?
Bless your heart… Your ignorance is truly bliss, in a land of liberals.
Note: The writer probably meant ‘AR-15’. Using the ‘AK’ is a bit more serious and implies a Russian make and model, famously the AK-47. Modern Kalashnikov rifles, such as the lighter AK-15 are actual ‘assualt rifles’;it is chambered in 7.62×39mm cartridges.
Note: I know, respect and enjoy the AK-47. It is one of the finest weapons ever created.
Is that from all the Call of Duty you play?
“Ridiculing them about getting outside and looking up from their smartphones or computer screens.”
Nah, most of my disdain stems from the little darlings eating Tide pods and snorting condoms.
I took a fallow deer down 2 weeks ago with one.
Next!!!
Where’d you get to do that? Texas?
Nephew’s first hunt at 13 so I took him to a place out in western Pa.
Not my preferred style of hunt, but I don’t have the $$ to take him out for a week out west/south.
Whew, lots of emoting there Chas, not a lot of facts.
Fact is, the Parkland shooter was using 10 round mags.
The question is, what good has limiting magazine capacity done?
Fact is, since 1982 roughly 8 kids a year die in mass school shootings while 100 kids die in pool accidents.
The question is, since pool deaths are a full order of magnitude higher why aren’t you advocating for banning pools?
Fact is, over a million times a year a US citizen protects themselves with a gun against violent intent.
The question is, why do you want inhibit citizens from protecting themselves?
Fact is, every despotic dictator of the 20th century successfully disarmed the populace before the killings began.
The question is, why would you enable totalitarianism?
The fact is, the demonstrators were demanding that Mr. Trump remove civil rights in the form of gun confiscation and neutralization of the 2nd amendment.
The question is, weren’t these the same people who have been calling Mr. Trump a Nazi for the 18 months?
The fact is, your rant ( NOT an editorial ) displays your lack of a basic knowledge of guns.
The question is, why do gun control advocates pontificate over something they know so little about?
The fact is, the Bill of Rights explains that we have a natural right to self defense so it’s none of your business how many guns we own, nor how many rounds of ammo we have, nor how we legally use them.
Any question?
Wow, Ray I think you have some spittle on the side of your mouth from that outburst. I can play this game too.
1. Fact is, the Parkland shooter was using 10 round mags. The question is, what good has limiting magazine capacity done?
Why would you need more than 10 rounds at any one time? This shooter didn’t use a high capacity clip but others have. This seems like an emotional response from you.
2. Fact is, since 1982 roughly 8 kids a year die in mass school shootings while 100 kids die in pool accidents. The question is, since pool deaths are a full order of magnitude higher why aren’t you advocating for banning pools?
Unlike Paul, I don’t think I need to throw the definition of “accident” into this but you are aware that an accident is much different than a killing. While both types of death are tragic, you assume some risks by swimming in a pool. You should not have to assume any risk going to school, going to the mall, movies, etc.. Again, this seems like an emotion response from you.
3.Fact is, over a million times a year a US citizen protects themselves with a gun against violent intent. The question is, why do you want inhibit citizens from protecting themselves?
Please provide the reference for that statement and then while you are at it please provide the number of people killed with their own weapon, number of people killed by mistake or accident. Let’s just save a ton of taxpayer money and do away with law enforcement we can protect ourselves.
4.Fact is, every despotic dictator of the 20th century successfully disarmed the populace before the killings began. The question is, why would you enable totalitarianism?
What? Were you running out of facts? What does this have to do with the United States? Exactly – nothing!
5.The fact is, the demonstrators were demanding that Mr. Trump remove civil rights in the form of gun confiscation and neutralization of the 2nd amendment. The question is, weren’t these the same people who have been calling Mr. Trump a Nazi for the 18 months?
Again, it seems like the fact wagon was slowing down. Do you know that all these demonstrators where calling Trump a Nazi? This is what I have been unable to understand – this is NOT a liberal vs conservative, democrat vs republican, white vs black, alien vs human issue. The rounds don’t have “liberal” or “conservative” on them. It is indiscriminate killing but yet people like you are dicking around with a solution to the issue.
6. The fact is, your rant ( NOT an editorial ) displays your lack of a basic knowledge of guns.
The question is, why do gun control advocates pontificate over something they know so little about?
That line there must have had you spraying spittle all over your monitor. Do you really need any weapons knowledge to know that load, point, squeeze – dead. Explain to me why you don’t need gun control? Your self-policing really seems to be a little lacking (yup, looking at you NRA). .
7. The fact is, the Bill of Rights explains that we have a natural right to self defense so it’s none of your business how many guns we own, nor how many rounds of ammo we have, nor how we legally use them.
Oh boy, the Bill of Rights, like we never amended those. Ponder this – laws are created by the majority, for the minority to protect the majority from the minority. You had your chance all these years – you blew it. The NRA, just like Apple, has created the “Pavlov Consumer”. “With registration, the government will take away your guns!” Do you really believe that? They can’t even get a census right and you yahoos think they are going to be knocking at your door. It’s called marketing and the NRA is doing a hell of a job. Think about what the NRA was in the beginning and what they are now – trying to stay relevant, it’s a big business and quite frankly they don’t give a rats ass about you -its all about the “company”
I have no problem with guns. I don’t own any. I understand the reason for multiple rifles, I have multiple fishing rods. I do have a problem with the lack of any real gun control.
tkenny, dude, you are both a hoot and a rip at the same time!
How spectacular of you!
I said you could be compared in terms of sheer intellectual horsepower to a McGeorge Bundy, but I am wrong; with this post above tearing Raymond Otton into smaller shreds than our dear friend and fellow Patriot Chas Cornweller tore David Cowan into above here, you far surpass McGeorge Bundy in in tellectual horsepower, and that is a fact.
And yes, tkenny, you most certainly can “play the game,” as you say, but I don’t think this is a game we are playing in here, at all, and I don’t think Ray has any spittle on the side of his mouth from his post, but at the same time, with all due respect to your towering intellect, tkenny, I don’t think you really have a clue as to what you are talking about, by and large here.
At the foot of your tirade, you say “I do have a problem with the lack of any real gun control.”
In the military, tkenny, lack of any real gun control is deemed a cause of unwanted pregnancies.
If you want to consider a rifle like the AR-15 as a form of “gun,” which I suppose it could be if you stretch the definition far enough (gun: a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise), then “gun control” is keeping the muzzle of your weapon pointed downrange, and practicing gun safety at all times.
When you talk about a lack of gun control what comes across is that you don’t want certain people in this nation to be able to own guns, and in this pathetically sick and mentally disturbed nation, there are probably a host of them, many actually in high government positions above us, who should not be allowed anywhere near a firearm, for the good of the people around them.
So the problem then becomes one of exactly who it is that makes that determination as to who can have a gun and who can’t, and here is but one of the places where you seem to be hoist on your own petard.
Consider this, tkenny – you make mock of Ray Otten in your shred job above as follows: “With registration, the government will take away your guns!”
“Do you really believe that?”
“They can’t even get a census right and you yahoos think they are going to be knocking at your door.”
end quotes
How McGeorge Bundy wishes he could have come up with lines like that, tkenny.
So, if they are so incompetent, and I would be the last person to say they weren’t, who is doing these “universal background checks” the children who are in a rage want?
The same incompetent crowd who can’t even do a census right?
Is that what you want the American people to buy into, tkenny?
Who is the government, anyway?
Isn’t it the Democrats and Republicans?
And the Democrats have already put us on notice that they don’t want people in America having guns.
So if the children manage to pack our federal government with Democrats, and then they put the power of denying guns into the hands of the Democrats, when somebody has a background check, isn’t the first thing the Democrats are going to check is his voter status?
“Dude’s not a Democrat, so no gun for him!”
“Next application, please!”
Or if the dude is a Democrat, the next thing they will check is how much he makes and how much he has in the bank, so they can determine the size of the bribe he is going to have to pay for the “privilege,” as the whacked-out stoner Bill Mahar calls it, of owning a gun, because the Democrats over time have learned not to be too greedy when bribing people, so as to make the process well, more fair and democratic.
You should not be forced to have to pay a bribe to have some basic rights that is beyond your means.
That is what you want us to buy into, tkenny – putting our future even further into the hands of a bunch of politicians who cannot be trusted with it.
You would love to see Nancy Pelosi in charge of universal background checks, wouldn’t you, tkenny.
Which brings us to Tommy Jefferson, a hero of Chas Cornweller, in his Commonplace Book quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1774-1776:
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature.”
“They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….”
“Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
end quotes
Is Tommy talking through his hat there, tkenny, or is he really a relic from a by-gone era?
And how about Noah Webster from “An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution,” October 10, 1787, to wit:
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe.”
“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
end quotes
That scares the **** out of Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama and the Democrat Party, doesn’t it, tkenny
And that happens to be OUR American heritage, tkenny.
Regardless of the history and heritage of any other nation on the face of the earth, that is ours, and it was not granted to us by a foreign king, or by the Democrat Party or Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton – it was won by force of arms at Lexington, Concord, Bunker Hill and Saratoga and on and on and on.
So the relevant question for you, tkenny, is whether it is now time for this nation to totally jettison all our past history, and instead, turn our affairs over to these children to reshape in the manner they want things to be.
You do recall, don’t you, tkenny, the teenage Cameron Kasky telling us adults and older people this on the Bill Maher Show on March 2, 2018:
“I mean this sincerely, I really do, to all the generations before us we sincerely accept your apology,” the teen said.
“We appreciate that you are willing to let us rebuild the world that you f—ed up.”
end quotes
There it is in black and white, tkenny – time for the adults to go home and get in the basement and turn the world over to the children so they can correct all the ****-ups we so obviously made.
Is that what you are for?
And then there is St. George Tucker from “Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England,” 1803, to wit:
“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty….”
“The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible.”
“Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
end quotes
See, tkenny, the problem here is that tens of millions of adults in America who were educated to be responsible American citizens, as opposed to citizens of say, Cuba, or Zimbabwe, or Kenya, know that, and believe that, because it is true.
Today, we have an incompetent government in this country that hardly anyone trusts with our rights, and they are our rights, tkenny, whether you, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton like it, or not, so how do you propose to get the American people to trust them on the question of who should own guns in this country?
Consider this latest information from Gallup on the question “Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?”:
Approve Disapprove No opinion
2018 Feb 1-10: 15 81 4
2018 Jan 2-7: 20 75 5
2017 Dec 4-11: 17 78 5
end quotes
How do you get us around that, tkenny?
I for one would like to know, tkenny.
When 80% of the American people don’t think Congress is incompetent, and count me as one of them, why would they trust those same incompetent fools with such a vital question as to who can own guns or weapons in this country?
I hope you won’t run and hide as you usually do when presented with a tough question in here, but instead will stand and engage as a public service to all of us.
You tell Ray Otten that he is dicking around with a solution to the issue, but what about you?
What is it that you are doing, because I have heard no solutions from you, who seem to know more than anyone else in here about what is what, and what is not.
As to the 2d Amendment, tkenny, you know as well as I that it doesn’t have to be repealed.
Put who can own guns in this country in the hands of the Democrats, and that will be the end of the 2d Amendment right there.
If you doubt that, consider this CBS NEWS item “Joe Biden denounces ‘prostitution of the Second Amendment'” by Emily Tillett on 29 March 2018, as follows:
Vice President Joe Biden blasted what he called “the prostitution of the Second Amendment” by gun rights activists at the University of Pennsylvania on Thursday.
He made the remarks while participating in wide-ranging discussion with the university’s president, Amy Gutmann.
“I think the Second Amendment is being badly interpreted, it’s not consistent with what our founders intended,” said Biden when discussing gun policy.
end quotes
It’s being badly interpreted, tkenny.
Regardless of what any of us THINK it might say, if we are for gun ownership, it says something different than what we think it says, and if you are against gun ownership, why, it agrees with you.
See how easy it is to defeat the Constitution, tkenny?
Like Joe Biden, you simply change history while ignoring the Constitution and instilling a belief in others, like these children, that it does not exist, or does not have meaning in their lives, so they can ignore it.
You want to get rid of the 2d Amendment, tkenny, the easiest way is to get control of the government and appoint judges who will say it really means nothing today, so that you have no right to appeal when your “universal background check” comes back stamped “denied.”
Read Joe Biden’s lips here, tkenny:
He added, “What’s happened here is the nation as a whole has decided it can no longer, in my view, continue to turn a blind eye to the prostitution of the Second Amendment here and can no longer turn a blind eye to the enormous damage being done not just in our schools but on our streets.”
end quotes
You speak Democrat, tkenny, do you have a clue as to what old goofy Joe is saying there when he talks about “the nation as a whole has decided it can no longer, in my view, continue to turn a blind eye to the prostitution of the Second Amendment?”
I’m as much a part of this nation as is goofy Joe Biden, who is pandering for the youth vote here in an effort to steal it away from Young Andy Cuomo in New York State who is also pandering for it, and I am clueless as to this “blind eye” he is talking about.
Any light you can shed on that subject would again be greatly appreciated.
As to pandering for votes, here is Joe Biden at his best:
Biden hailed the work of young activists who led the “March For Our Lives” rally in Washington and across the country.
He said the students of Parkland, Florida have forced an “awful lot of elected officials” to “rip the bandaid off” of where they stand on gun-related issues.
“This was totally, thoroughly spontaneously on the part of the students, there was no adult inspiration for this.”
“They insisted and that’s why guys like me who led in the gun issue did not show up to speak, we wanted to make sure everybody knew this was a spontaneous, thoroughly spontaneous effort on the part of young people,” said Biden of the marches.
He added, “These millions of kids, they’re impacting on their parents’ sense of responsibility and you’re going to see it in the polls, you’re going to see it change, it’s already a movement, it’s real and I predict to you it’s not going to stop.”
end quote
That ripping sound is not band-aids coming off, tkenny, it is the sound of a nation being torn asunder by hack politicians on the make like Joe Biden.
Are you for that, tkenny, another civil war in this nation?
It was the Democrats who got us into the last one, afterall, wanting to hold people is servitude and slavery as they again want to do today.
As to “accidents, tkenny, the definitions are as follows:
1. an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
2. an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.
end quotes
Wouldn’t either or those apply to what happened in Parkland, Florida, tkenny?
The candid world would like to know, and no wonder you stayed away from the definition in your tirade to Ray Otten – it would have been another petard for you to hoist yourself on.
And once again, back to you, tkenny, dude!
Paul, love to answer the tough question(s) but you didn’t ask any. It seems more of a rant, actually. If you’re going to ask a question, please make it succinct. The above was 2,354 words, way too wordy to keep anyone interested.
If you believe that “accident” fits the Parkland shooting then you better look up the definition of “unintentional”
tkenny, dude, did I ever tell you how much you dazzle me with your intellect in here?
I think I have, but just to be sure, let me do it again – tlkenny, dude, you positively dazzle me with your logic in here, and I am sincere about that.
How you can use words in here to create these shapes and vivid images that you are able to conjure up in here to keep us all spellbound and captivated is simply astounding, at least to me, anyway, although I think I speak for a vast cross-section of the American people on that score, as well.
And tkenny, speaking of those flashes of intellect you dazzle us with in here, as McGeorge Bundy once dazzled JFK, this is rich: “Paul, love to answer the tough question(s) but you didn’t ask any.”
What a great line, tkenny, seriously!
I really like that.
Maybe I’ll get a chance to use it one day, myself, if you don’t mind, of course, which is how lasting memes get created, at least here in the USA – by trendsetters such as yourself, tkenny, who can wield words like a sword or meat-axe as the occasion demands.
But I think you are straying off the res, as the saying goes, tkenny, when you call my writing above “more of a rant, actually.”
Let’s take a look, tkenny:
According to the dictionary, a “RANT,” a verb with a gerund or present participle being ranting, is to speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way, as in “she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all,” or “she ranted about the unfairness,” which so many people today do, tkenny, which is why we hear so much about victimhood in the country today, because being a victim has social cachet like nothing else in this country.
The synonyms of “rant” include fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim, shout, yell, bellow, or mouth off.
Clearly, tkenny, my above essay contains none of those essential elements for it to be properly classed as a rant, and hence, it clearly is not and cannot be a rant, lacking those essential elements of a rant as it so clearly does, at least for someone with a discerning mind.
And this line is a hoot as well, tkenny: “If you’re going to ask a question, please make it succinct.”
That is so McGeorge Bundy, it isn’t funny – the dude was famous for that!
That is why he was such an important part of our government when you were just a mere stripling boy, tkenny, to keep you safe.
And my goodness, tkenny, talk about being amazing, I can’t believe you actually sat there and counted every word in my post to see how many there actually were, coming up with a count of 2,354 words, which is pretty close, actually.
As to being way too wordy to keep anyone interested, tkenny, that is merely your opinion – if you are a weak reader who can only assimilate a handful of words before becoming taxed, then yes, I suppose to those people it would be a chore, but let’s face it, tkenny, those people are over at TWITTER, not here.
As to asking you a question. tkenny, I did.
Here it is again:
You do recall, don’t you, tkenny, the teenage Cameron Kasky telling us adults and older people this on the Bill Maher Show on March 2, 2018:
“I mean this sincerely, I really do, to all the generations before us we sincerely accept your apology,” the teen said.
“We appreciate that you are willing to let us rebuild the world that you f—ed up.”
end quotes
There it is in black and white, tkenny – time for the adults to go home and get in the basement and turn the world over to the children so they can correct all the ****-ups we so obviously made.
Is that what you are for?
end quotes
A simple yes or no would suffice, tkenny, but if you want to expand on your views beyond that, please do, the candid world would appreciate hearing your point of view.
Sorry to disappoint but there is no spittle flying over here. The wife would let me know if that were the case.
She hates messes.
The thing is, the O/P admits right up front that he is “emoting” on this issue and your comments fall into the same category.
Spittle flying indeed.
Cutting to the chase in this long, dreary back and forth thread is that pro-2nd amendment folks don’t want to set national policy based on gun control advocates’ emotions.
Our rights don’t end where your feelings begin.
They are a domestic threat if I ever saw one, liberals that is.
I think there is a lot of enlightening going on in here, myself.
I don’t find it dreary, at all, but I wholeheartedly concur with you as an American citizen when you say to tkenny that the pro-2nd amendment folks don’t want to set national policy based on gun control advocates’ emotions, as their rights and yours do not end where their feelings begin.
That would be a tyranny.
Chas,
I haven’t been this shredded since… Um… Oh, wait. I don’t feel shredded at all! I catch more grief than this every day at work!
I’ll give you this, Chas, to semi-quote Slim Pickens from Blazing Saddles, “Governor, you use your mouth better than a $20 whore!” You talk real good, you do. Too bad it is just emotional nonsense.
Let’s consider just a few of your statements. Again logic escapes you.
“Just try and duplicate the terror and the tally of … Virginia Tech with just a handgun.” Well, Skippy, the shooter at Virginia Tech used a couple of handguns, with low-capacity 10 round magazines. No “assault rifles” there, no “high capacity magazines” involved. Sorry.
“You see, you folks with such cerebral capacity and great thoughts keep throwing in the “Well, handguns are killing folks every day in Chicago, or Richmond or Tallahassee, for all we know.” And yes, giant brain, you are correct. But, how many at a time? Thirty? Or even twenty? It is the number of ballistic shoots that drive the kill score up. THE NUMBER AMOUNT! Can you not get that through? Do you not realize that?” Chas, this is just too easy. No, you are wrong (again). But I think you like being wrong, because you are wrong so often. About 1 % of homicides occur in mass shootings. A little Google work will find the data for you. It is the day-to-day street killings that drive America’s homicide rate.
“I stated that hunters don’t use AK-15’s to hunt…anything. You called out non-sense. How so? State one animal (besides man) that you would hunt with an AK-15? ONE. That’s all I ask. ” Well, if I knew where to get me one of those AK-15s… But I digress, Chas. It took me about 15 seconds to find this: “It’s best to look at the states that don’t allow deer hunting with .223 diameter bullet… Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Washington, and West Virginia require larger bullets… (to hunt deer)”. That means that in most states the .223 CAN be used to hunt deer, and with proper ammunition and within reasonable distances, that is appropriate. While you only asked for one animal that can be hunted with an AK-15, I will give you several more: wild pigs, pronghorn, coyotes, ground hogs, and turkey (I actually saw the Youtube on the turkey). This discussion refers to the cartridge, not the rifle. If you think that the RIFLE is not suitable for hunting, I must ask “why?”. Is there anything about the AK-15 that makes it not suitable for hunting? Have you ever held an AK-15?
“Lastly, the government is not coming for all the guns. Hell, I’d be happy if they just created a national data base to track all gun buyers. Did you know that the NRA has fought and blocked a national data base for decades now? ” Well, based on a lot of the signs from your favorite demonstrations, quite a few people do indeed want the government to come for all the guns (“Yes, I’ll pry it from your cold dead fingers” said one sign). As another sign said, “If they give us this inch, we’ll take a mile”. You mention a national database to track all gun buyers? But why? What would be the benefits? Gun registration is good only for taxation and confiscation. Do you have a preference? Why has the NRA fought national registration? Because people like you are not to be trusted. If guns are registered, then those who would take them will know just where to find them. Never happen? It happened in Australia. It happened in England. It happened in New York City, where dangerous .22 rifles holding seven or more rounds were taken from owners (actually, they could turn them in voluntarily or have them destroyed, or get them out of the city).
“…NRA has been so helpful in …blocking research for mental health and gun ownership by the CDC.” Please, Chas, provide me your sources for the NRA blocking anything “mental health”. And if you give Mr. Google a try, you would learn the the CDC is NOT blocked from funding gun research. They are blocked only from spending tax money on funding anti-gun advocacy (and if you were capable of internet searching you would see that they did just that until they were stopped. But this requires reading beyond the HuffPost and ThinkProgress).
Finally, you wrap up with another outburst and more personal insults. Chas, I served 23 years combined active and reserve Army service. No, I was never in combat, but I studied combat, all aspects of it. I have fired all those guns that make you clutch your pearls. Perhaps you didn’t believe me the first time I said it, but a bad person does NOT need an AK-15 to kill children. As was demonstrated at Va Tech, handguns with standard capacity magazines do the job just fine. And the term “soft targets” is a real thing and has a meaning. It just means that a place is easy to attack. Places like the Westgate shopping mall. Places like the Bataclan theater. Places like the Manchester Arena. While no place can be made attack-proof, steps can be taken to reduce the likelihood of attack, and if attacked, reduce the casualties. This is real-life stuff, Chas. Not television or the movies. There are bad people who would do bad things.
And I am still concerned about your friends who shoot a hundred doves a day. Do they also violate game and hunting laws when they hunt deer (with their AK-15s?) or waterfowl?
Shredded, Chas? No. You responded with just more emotional ranting, failing to make a single logical, rational point. However, you are welcome to try again.
I have come to realize that liberals do not represent the country I was raised to be a part of. They are more dangerous to our way of life that any other substance on Earth. They are going to awaken a sleeping giant before this page in our nation’s His-Story is turned.
Give ‘en Hell every day and twice on Sunday. I would not [radio edit] on a liberal if it were on fire.
Thanks for your service, David Cowan, it is appreciated!
Paul, I was a REMF. My thanks go the those at the tip of the spear. Most dangerous place I was ever sent was Washington, DC.
Did you get hazardous duty pay?
You should have.
Thank God I got to go to Viet Nam, instead!
Back then the District was the Homicide Capital of the US! Handguns were completely banned and yet the locals were killing themselves at an alarming rate! I was at Walter Reed then, and someone came into the hospital barber shop and killed one of the barbers. That must have been one BAD haircut! The police were non-functional, but the parking enforcement was superlative. One car was parked illegally of a few days and got several parking tickets before someone realized the guy in the driver’s seat was dead. The good old days of Marion Barry! The place is so much more boring now.
This paranoiac and dyslexic thinking of some of my fellow countrymen (and countrywomen) truly frightens me. Not in a terrorist type of fear or quaking in my shoes type of fear, but a long, slow burn in my heart and mind. Full well, knowing that the binds of their own cognitive dissonance will never allow them to see beyond a small, circular world, forever trapped in their own self-righteous bubble.
How’s that for “Real Good Talk?” Better than a twenty-dollar whore? And, how’s that for a fact. Because you folks out there cradling your guns muttering thoughts and prayers have a real loose grasp on the facts. Over and over and over again. “Them damn libtards will be the death knell of this great nation of ours, you just mark my words!” You wouldn’t know what was good for this country and for you if it walked up to your front door and presented as Christ himself. You’d just see some dirty long haired brown skinned bum with an entourage asking if you’d heard the good news today. Probably would brandish your weapon to shoo him away. Lastly, to you, Mr. Easy…kudos for your love of all things AK-47, or Kalashnikov’s Automatic Rifle. It was/is the finest weapon of these modern times. And for that, I too, have a great deal of respect. But, that’s where mine ends. For you see, Sleasy…that weapon has killed more Americans in more theaters than any other weapon these past sixty years. Dwell on that thought next time you reflect on your love of weaponry. I am sure Mr. Plante or any other Viet Nam veteran do not share your same viewpoint. They’ve witnessed the raw end of that rifle, unlike others, including our brave moralistic Commander-In-Chief, President Bone Spur.
“The Moral Majority are neither.” Bumper sticker in the late Seventies/Sarly eighties
If you are a responsible gun owner with the intention of using it only for self-defense/sport, how do laws that make it harder for dangerous people to acquire guns infringe on your rights? John Gahdnah
Converte gladium tuum in locum suum. Omnes enim, qui acceperint gladium, gladio peribunt. (“Return your sword to its place, for all who will take up the sword, will die by the sword.”) Jesus Christ; Matthew 26:52
And with this…I conclude my stake in this discussion. I have said my peace. May the children prevail and may peace find a way. Thanks to the editor(s) for allowing me my say.
You always do that, my dear friend Chas Cornweller – come in here with an emotional rant, which is your right as an American citizen, and which you are good at, and then you get all huffy because we won’t emote with you, and then you run off and leave, as if the problem was with us,
IT ISN’T!
You say, “This paranoiac and dyslexic thinking of some of my fellow countrymen (and countrywomen) truly frightens me.”
Okay.
What paranoiac and dyslexic thinking?
Give us at least a hint if you would.
If everyone in here other than you is guilty of paranoiac and dyslexic thinking, it would seem to me that you have a duty to the nation and to these children and the future to straighten us all out.
But you never do.
You say “Not in a terrorist type of fear or quaking in my shoes type of fear, but a long, slow burn in my heart and mind.”
Again, Chas Cornweller, this is America, and here at least, until we become more totalitarian, you can feel pretty much as you choose.
I don’t think anyone in here is going to pull a gun on you and hold it to your head to make you feel something different.
We are mature adults, afterall, not unruly children.
You say, “Full well, knowing that the binds of their own cognitive dissonance will never allow them to see beyond a small, circular world, forever trapped in their own self-righteous bubble.”
There you are talking about Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and the Progressive Democrats, and here, I must totally agree with you – yes, they do!
How’s that for “Real Good Talk” you ask?
Pretty good is my response – there you have nailed them perfectly
And, how’s that for a fact.
Right on the money is my thought.
But what is this, Chas Cornweller: “Because you folks out there cradling your guns muttering thoughts and prayers have a real loose grasp on the facts.”
If somebody out there is actually cradling a gun while muttering over and over and over again “Them damn libtards will be the death knell of this great nation of ours, you just mark my words,” that is probably somebody who shouldn’t have the gun in the first place, but from what I can tell, that is not anyone in this discussion you started and are now running from, muttering over and over, “Them damn conservatives will be the death knell of this great nation of ours, you just mark my words.”
Could it be said, Chas Cornweller, and please, take no offense from this, that it is you who wouldn’t know what was good for this country and for you if it walked up to your front door and presented as Christ himself.
Would you just see some dirty long haired brown skinned bum with an entourage asking if you’d heard the good news today?
Would you mistake them for Jehovah’s Witnesses and brandish some type of weapon to shoo them away?
As to the AK-47, or Kalashnikov’s Automatic Rifle, truly, as a combat veteran who has been face to face with it a time or two, especially in the bamboo, I have to agree with slide easy that it was/is the finest weapon of these modern times, and for that, I too, have a great deal of respect.
As you say, Chas Cornweller, that weapon has killed a lot of Americans, but not in more theaters than any other weapon these past sixty years.
There you are quite uninformed and wrong.
When the Chinese came south in Korea back in early 1950s, they were armed with American Tommy guns that they had captured from the Nationalists they defeated.
Some of the armament of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), under the name “volunteer army” in Korea, where the Pentagon put Korean War battle deaths at 33,652, was from the Imperial Japanese Army or were captured from the Kuomintang (Nationalist Chinese) military forces.
Some Czechoslovak-made weapons were also purchased on the open market by the PRC.
During the PVA’s first offensive (the so-called First Phase Campaign) in the Korean War between October and November 1950, large quantities of captured American weapons were widely used due to the availability of the required ammunition and the increasing difficulty of constant re-supplying across the Yalu River due to numerous UN-/USA-conducted air interdiction operations.
In addition, there was also a local copy of the American Thompson submachine gun being produced by the PRC, based on the type of which had already been exported to and used in China since the 1930s and by American/South Korean troops during the Korean War as well.
The American Tommy gun, a favorite of American paratroopers in Europe during WWII, was a real assault weapon, Chas Cornweller, in like the civilian, semi-automatic AR-15.
The Tommy gun spits out a real chunk of lead, Chas Cornweller, almost a half an inch in diameter at a cycle rate of fire of 600–725 rpm, versus the .223 inch round of the AR-15 at a maximum theoretical rate of about 138 rounds per minute with an expert firing the weapon, or 90 rounds per minute in reality, counting for changing magazines, and that is assuming the thing doesn’t jam.
Later on, after the first year of the Korean War, the Soviet Union began to send more weapons and ammunition to the PRC, which started to produce unlicensed copies of some types of Soviet weapons, such as the PPSh-41 submachine gun, which was designated as the Type 50.
The PPSh-41, another real assault weapon, unlike the AR-15, is a Soviet submachine gun designed by Georgy Shpagin as a cheap, reliable, and simplified alternative to the PPD-40.
The PPSh is a magazine-fed selective fire submachine gun using an open bolt, blowback action made largely of stamped steel which fires the 7.62×25mm Tokarev pistol round.
The “7.62 mm” is the diameter of that round, Chas Cornweller, versus 5.56 mm for the AR-15.
The PPSh saw extensive combat use during World War II and the Korean War.
It was one of the major infantry weapons of the Soviet Armed Forces during World War II.
Around six million PPSh-41s were manufactured.
In the form of the Chinese Type 50 (a licensed copy), it was still being used by the Viet Cong as late as 1970.
So, yes indeed, I have witnessed what you call the raw end of that rifle, the AK-47, and frankly, like slide easy, I think quite highly of it.
Would I take an AK-47 over an AR-15 if I had to do Viet Nam over again?
In a heartbeat, Chas Cornweller, for it is a superior combat weapon – not finicky and sensitive like the AR-15.
How many Americans died in Viet Nam, Chas Cornweller, because their M-16, a military version of the AR-15, jammed on them during a fire fight?
More than one is the answer to that question.
Consider this from the internet on the subject of the M-16 by a dude named Orvelin Valle on Feb. 15, 2017, as follows:
Vietnam War troops hated the M16 and called it a piece of garbage.
Vietnam War troops hated the M16 and dubbed it the “Mattel 16” because it felt more like a toy than a battle rifle.
“We called it the Mattel 16 because it was made of plastic,” said Marine veteran Jim Wodecki in the video below.
“At that time it was a piece of garbage.”
It weighed about half as much as the AK-47 Kalashnikov and fired a smaller bullet – the 5.56 mm round.
In short, the troops didn’t have faith in the rifle’s stopping power.
Compounding the M16’s troubles was its lack of a proper cleaning kit.
It was supposed to be so advanced that it would never jam, so the manufacturer didn’t feel it needed to make them.
But the M16 did jam.
“We hated it,” said Marine veteran John Culbertson.
“Because if it got any grime or corruption or dirt in it, which you always get in any rifle out in the field, it’s going to malfunction.”
“The shells ruptured in the chambers and the only way to get the shell out was to put a cleaning rod in it,” said Wodecki.
“So you can imagine in a firefight trying to clean your weapon after two or three rounds.”
“It was a nightmare for Marines at the time.
Towards the end of 1965, journalists picked up on mounting reports of gross malfunctions.
The American public became outraged over stories of troops dying face down in the mud because their rifles failed to fire, according to a story published by the Small Arms Review.
end quotes
As a Viet Nam combat veteran, Chas Cornweller, I won’t argue against any of that.
The M-16 was a Ferrari trying to compete in an off-road race against the AK-47, which was a real combat weapon, akin to an old Chevy truck – dependable.
And ditzy Hillary Clinton, who knows about combat from watching Rambo movies where Rambo is packing a mini-gun, which Hillary mistakes for an AR-15, and ten thousand rounds of ammo, calls the AR-15 a “weapon of war.”
What a fool she is, which is why she isn’t president, thank God, although this one is almost as bad as she would have been, and what fools are those who believe her.
As to Converte gladium tuum in locum suum. Omnes enim, qui acceperint gladium, gladio peribunt. (“Return your sword to its place, for all who will take up the sword, will die by the sword.”) Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:52 is talking to Peter, who has just cut the ear off of a servant of the high priest.
He is not talking to Ray Otten or David Cowan.
They are not advocating cutting off anyone’s ear in here so far as I can discern, anyway.
A common interpretation of that is that “those who live by violence will die by violence,” which some have interpreted as a call for Christian pacifism or even complete nonviolence, including in self-defense.
Neither Ray Otten nor David Cowan are advocating violence in here, Chas Cornweller.
Owning a gun does not make one violent.
Psych drugs like Wellbutrin given to children in this country does make them violent, so shouldn’t that be banned to protect us from violent children with guns?
The AK-47 has never killed anyone. It is no more than a tool used, by humans, to fire a 7.62×39 round of ammunition.
Wow! I am impressed by the eloquent language used by a number in this debate, including Chas. I am not schooled in the Classics, but rather in science. Therein lies my insistence in using logic and rational thought in considering public policy.
Chas envisions a world that never existed, and wishes it would return. It’s not Chas.
He implies that the world, including in the United States, is more lawless and violent than in the past. It’s not Chas.
He thinks that gun control is crime control. It’s not, Chas.
Just because we refuse to accept that utopian visions of a gun-free America will eliminate violence is no reason to excoriate us, Chas. Just because we refuse to voluntarily relinquish our Constitutionally-enumerated rights in some unrealistic pipe-dream does not make us monsters, Chas.
For those like tkenny who mock people like Ray Otten for being concerned about the police one day showing up at one’s door to confiscate one’s firearms, saying it will never happen, here is a cautionary tale from New York state that shows tkenny is dead wrong, and that people like Ray Otten have a valid concern, to wit:
New York Woman Sues State Over Gun Confiscation by Jordan Michaels on December 29, 2016
A woman from New York is suing the state because she never received legal counsel following the wrongful confiscation of her firearms in 2015.
Donna McKay checked herself into a hospital in April of last year when she suffered an anxiety attack after taking cold medicine.
She was mistakenly placed on a list of people who had been involuntarily hospitalized, which, under New York’s SAFE Act, made her subject to firearm confiscation.
While the state eventually returned her property, she was forced to defend herself at the hearing and is still listed on the FBI’s list of people prohibited from purchasing firearms.
end quotes
It should be noted that in NYS, it is very easy to put someone on that list of people who had been involuntarily hospitalized, and once on, regardless of how “accidental” it was, your name is on that list forever, and your life is altered forever.
In New York State, and this has been upheld by none other than Sonia Sotomayor while a circuit judge on the federal 2d Circuit Court of Appeals in NYC, if one has $5,000 and the right lawyer as a bagman, you can get anyone you want condemned by a political doctor, totally sight unseen, as being mentally ill and dangerous and in need of involuntary psychiatric commitment, and onto that list their name goes, without any way to get it removed.
If the “government,” or what purports to be the government wants someone on that list, that is just a simple telephone call away.
And tkenny knows that to be true, so his attack on Ray Otten is quite disingenuous.
Getting back to that story, it continues as follows:
According to the New York Law Journal, Yates County Court Judge W. Patrick Falvey said medical records clearly indicate that McKay voluntarily entered hospitalized care, circumstances that do not constitute “commitment.”
“I didn’t know anything about what was going on until I heard a knock at my door and multiple officers appeared to serve me with a court order for the confiscation of all of my firearms,” McKay said in a statement.
end quote
Ah, yes, the knock on the door that our dear friend tkenny says will never happen because the government is too inept and incompetent.
Back to you, tkenny, for rebuttal!
Paul, you are just lonely and want some attention – you answered your own question – “She was mistakenly placed on a list of people who had been involuntarily hospitalized, which, under New York’s SAFE Act, made her subject to firearm confiscation”
There is already a law in place allowing for the confiscation of firearms from involuntarily hospitalized people. Most people would consider that fair, smart. Like confiscation of weapons for a PFA. Protection from Abuse Order. In this case there was a mistake, oh well. Should we ban surgery, since one doctor removed a lung and it should have been an arm?
The government is not going to collect guns. Again, you bring nothing to the table.
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/state-legislator-illinois-gun-bill-introduces-confiscation-1/
Ooooops, must have missed that one, eh sweetie?
tkenny, dude, admit it, you are just lonely and want some attention,
And no, tkenny, I didn’t answer my own question because I never asked one.
What I did @ April 4, 2018 at 10:13 am was make the following set of statements, to wit:
For those like tkenny who mock people like Ray Otten for being concerned about the police one day showing up at one’s door to confiscate one’s firearms, saying it will never happen, here is a cautionary tale from New York state that shows tkenny is dead wrong, and that people like Ray Otten have a valid concern, to wit:
New York Woman Sues State Over Gun Confiscation by Jordan Michaels on December 29, 2016
A woman from New York is suing the state because she never received legal counsel following the wrongful confiscation of her firearms in 2015.
Donna McKay checked herself into a hospital in April of last year when she suffered an anxiety attack after taking cold medicine.
She was mistakenly placed on a list of people who had been involuntarily hospitalized, which, under New York’s SAFE Act, made her subject to firearm confiscation.
While the state eventually returned her property, she was forced to defend herself at the hearing and is still listed on the FBI’s list of people prohibited from purchasing firearms.
end quotes
My point is that once somebody is put on that list, they can’t get their names back off,
They are condemned forever, losing constitutional rights, without judicial due process.
That is blatant injustice.
You, tkenny, are very blasé (unimpressed or indifferent to something because one has experienced or seen it so often before) about that injustice: “In this case there was a mistake, oh well.”
HO ******* HUM, ain’t it, tkenny?
That comes across very much as **** the *****, who cares about what happened to her!
Callous, indeed, tkenny, and unfeeling, as well.
You must be a conservative to feel that heartless.
How would you like the police showing up at your door by “mistake” to confiscate your firearms, tkenny?
Do you think they would believe you when you told them it had to be some kind of mistake, because you are not mentally and dangerous, everybody who knows you knows that, and besides, you have no guns?
And then I made this statement, tkenny, which you personally know to be true:
It should be noted that in NYS, it is very easy to put someone on that list of people who had been involuntarily hospitalized, and once on, regardless of how “accidental” it was, your name is on that list forever, and your life is altered forever.
In New York State, and this has been upheld by none other than Sonia Sotomayor while a circuit judge on the federal 2d Circuit Court of Appeals in NYC, if one has $5,000 and the right lawyer as a bagman, you can get anyone you want condemned by a political doctor, totally sight unseen, as being mentally ill and dangerous and in need of involuntary psychiatric commitment, and onto that list their name goes, without any way to get it removed.
If the “government,” or what purports to be the government wants someone on that list, that is just a simple telephone call away.
And tkenny knows that to be true, so his attack on Ray Otten is quite disingenuous.
end quotes
That is what I said, tkenny, and all of it is true.
And then I concluded with this: Ah, yes, the knock on the door that our dear friend tkenny says will never happen because the government is too inept and incompetent; and then this: Back to you, tkenny, for rebuttal!
But you never did, tkenny – you never made even a flimsy attempt at rebuttal.
Why is that?
Isn’t it because you can’t?
Paul, when you use old information you should check for updates.
On February 26, 2018, the Hon. Frank P. Geraci, Jr. of the Western District Court of New York released his Decision and Order in the federal civil rights case of Donna McKay vs. the State of New York. The victory for those like Donna, who are falsely accused of having been “involuntarily committed,” is in the dismissal of her case. Victims of this systematic, false reporting by New York State to the FBI now have a clear course of legal action in county and federal courts to restore their Second Amendment and property rights.
You see, the system can correct itself. Some laws need a little tweaking because of unseen circumstances. Guess you don’t have much of an argument anymore.
Here’s the argument:
She regained her Rights, AT WHAT COST?
Ahh, that’s right………….as a leftist, you only allow justice for the wealthy.
Come, come, tkenny!
You toy with us here as if we were nothing more than ignorant churls (a person of low birth; a peasant).
That is pure balderdash (senseless talk or writing; nonsense) and then some, tkenny, and you of all people would be the first to know it!
You feed us a pocketful of mumbles such are promises, and then you expect people to take a right they have inherited through time from the original American citizens who won their freedom from the muzzle of a gun, because that is the only language a tyrant understands, tkenny. and hand that right over to a bunch of incompetent hack politicians who have already labeled them a basket of deplorables for safeguarding.
Get real, tkenny – that’s ridiculous.
And history is chock-a-block with tyrants being overthrown.
Look what happened to Chiang Kai Shek in China, tkenny, or the French in VEET NAM.
And speaking of tyrants, tkenny, and who it was that really ****** up the world Cameron Kasky now has to change to a better model, if you study our history from the beginning of WWII on through Korea, and then the support of the French in VEET NAM, and then our entry into the quagmire with Kennedy, and it was Kennedy who got us mired there, make no mistake about that, tkenny, because he thought Nikki Krushchev had bullied him and pushed him around at the Vienna summit on June 4, 1961, in Vienna, Austria, because he thought Kennedy weak and indecisive because of the Bay of Pigs, it really would have to be old Joe Stalin of Russia.
Joe Stalin is as responsible for the way things are in this country today, and our position in the world, as is any other world leader, including FDR, Truman, Eisenhower an d Jack Kennedy, so if young Cameron Kasky is looking for an adult to curse for ******* up his world, let him spew bile and vitriol of the name of Joe Stalin of Russia, and Joe McCarthy of our U.S. Senate.
As to your pocket full of mumbles, tkenny, and by the way, thanks for doing the detective work to find the information, that is a service to us all, including yourself, you tell us that on February 26, 2018, the Hon. Frank P. Geraci, Jr. of the Western District Court of New York, who incidentally was appointed to the federal bench by Hussein Obama on May 14, 2012, released his Decision and Order in the federal civil rights case of Donna McKay vs. the State of New York.
end quotes
Your glibness (defined as a state of being talkative in a smooth, almost insincere way, as in the fast, easy, smooth talk of a used car salesman)here, tkenny, fails to reassure on many levels for many reasons.
And by the way, I am ready to compromise with you on restricting access to any kinds of weapons by putting those on Wellbutrin or any other psych drug with the side effects of Wellbutrin on a list of those who should not have access to weapons, period.
I think there is where we need to start, tkenny, and I would like your concurrence on that.
Getting back to your pocketful of mumbles that fail to reassure, tkenny, the fact that there is a judgment in that federal civil rights lawsuit you mention means there has to be a federal lawsuit in the first place, and that is big bucks, tkenny, as you would be the first to know.
Somebody without the big bucks is out of court, tkenny, and please, don’t pretend otherwise.
And tkenny, dude, the decision of a liberal-leaning federal district court judge in western New York don’t mean doodly-squat outside of his own courtroom, because district judges do not set precedent, tkenny.
So he ruled in the woman’s favor, which frankly, being rational, I cheer, so what, tkenny?
What has changed?
Her guns were taken.
By mistake.
What I want from you and David Hogg and Cameron Kasky is a failsafe system where this cannot happen, to anybody.
And what we get back from you is the tired old political excuse of well, nothing is perfect so we have to accept compromises.
BULL****, tkenny, not near good enough!
And then you give us this drivel, tkenny: The victory for those like Donna, who are falsely accused of having been “involuntarily committed,” is in the dismissal of her case.
HUH?
That one case means absolutely nothing, tkenny, since each case is judged on its own merits, so that case establishes no precedent that will serve anyone else, especially in the highly political northern district of New York, which has is own law, not the law of western New York, which is considered parochial.
And this is more mumbles, tkenny: Victims of this systematic, false reporting by New York State to the FBI now have a clear course of legal action in county and federal courts to restore their Second Amendment and property rights.
No, actually they don’t, tkenny, so don’t feed us this bull****, which doesn’t help anyone else in any other state, nor should it reassure them that this could never happen to them.
In the northern district of New York, the word of Sonia Sotomayor is the real law, given that she was a federal appeals court judge, and so up here, it is her law, not that of Frank P. Geraci, Jr. of the Western District Court of New York, that prevails.
His ruling mans nothing here.
So no, tkenny, while there is a glimmer of hope in western New York, and western New York, being a lot farther from the snake pit of Albany, has its own unique views of justice, being more backwards as it is out there, the frontier, don’t you know, compared to Albany, I do not see that the system can correct itself.
I would see that when Sonia Sotomayor was forced to resign in disgrace, something you are against.
And then back to your glibness, tkenny, whether natural or studied: Some laws need a little tweaking because of unseen circumstances.
OH, WOW, tkenny, really!
Who’d a thought it!
When you have a list of those tweaks ready for us to review, please, in the spirit of citizenship, present them to us for our serious consideration in behalf of a grateful nation.
Guess you don’t have much of an argument anymore, do you, tkenny?
And thanks for that case, I am going to study it.
What a world it would be if we had a lot more Frank P. Geraci, Jr.’s on the bench, and there I am quite serious.
When Sotomayor resigns, I would be happy to see him take her place.
Hey Grumpy! I did and that’s a great tool to have. Why? Because you are the y type of person who would say “well, the police had run ins with him all the time, they knew he was a nut case. Why didn’t they take his guns away?” You can substitute family for police if you like. Why didn’t they take away his guns? Because they have no legal authority. Now someone does.
So you said you were in the legal world at one point in time. We both know that the petition isn’t going to just contain the word “BECAUSE” it will clearly lay out why the firearms need to be removed, presented to a Judge and then a determination will be made. It’s one-sided yes, but so are criminal complaints, PFA’s and whatnot. (Paul, before you say anything, it’s how the legal system works, you can stuff your “corrupt legal system” where the sun doesn’t shine)
Again, I’ll bring up that this isn’t a liberal/conservative, red/blue thing. The law applies to all who may be in jeopardy.
One more thing Grumpy, if you knew Paul was legally drunk, over the limit, would you give him the keys to his car? Why would you allow someone access to a firearm if you thought they were going off the deep end?
You fling hypotheticals like flails in here, tkenny, chopping and slashing left and right in your futile effort to have us all join your parade down to the local police office or government office to register ourselves and our possessions.
You can’t fathom, tkenny, the fact that to older Americans who fought against totalitarianism in Italy, France and Germany during WWII, and fought against Communism in Korea, another more insidious form of totalitarianism, and Communism in Veet Nam, that having to report to government offices to get yourself registered is distinctly un-American and therefore quite odious (extremely unpleasant; repulsive; synonyms: revolting, repulsive, repellent, repugnant, disgusting, offensive, objectionable, vile, foul, abhorrent, loathsome, nauseating, sickening, hateful, detestable, execrable, abominable, monstrous, appalling, reprehensible, deplorable, insufferable, intolerable, despicable, contemptible, unspeakable, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, frightful, obnoxious, unsavory, unpalatable, unpleasant, disagreeable, nasty, noisome, distasteful) to an American citizen.
That is what happens to people in totalitarian countries.
And you know damn well, tkenny, yes, you do, that if Mike Kuzma or David Cowan were to be in New York state posting about owning AR-15s while extolling their virtues, somebody would be checking the registry to see if they were registered, and if they weren’t, they would both be getting a visit from the police with a confiscation order.
So please, don’t try and play coy on that one, because you know it is true.
Yeah, it’s un-American for 18 year olds to register with Selective Service, to register for a drivers license, to register your boat, car, the sale of your house, marriage license. Paul, go take your meds.
Oh and Big Brother is watching everything we type, looking for keywords like gun, ak-47, ar-15 and even AK-15!
tkenny,
As far as I know, none of the actions you mention are Constitutionally-enumerated rights.
Still wondering why you would want to register guns. Do you have any reasons beyond taxation and confiscation?
tkenny, dude, your mastery of the art of obfuscation in here is both stunning, awesome and stupendous, but then, you know that already, don’t you, you sly devil, you.
For those unfamiliar with the word “obfuscate,” which our protagonist tkenny is a master at the art of, it means to render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible, with synonyms, obscure, confuse, make unclear, blur, muddle, complicate, overcomplicate, muddy, cloud, or befog.
As to the art of obfuscation, its practice in this thread by tkenny is found in this following sentence: “Yeah, it’s un-American for 18 year olds to register with Selective Service, to register for a drivers license, to register your boat, car, the sale of your house, marriage license.”
What that is supposed to mean, or how it fits into the context of this discussion is well, yes, obscure, muddy, cloudy, and intended to befog our senses.
It is intended to distract us.
But in this case, at least, tkenny failed, and failed big, precisely because it not un-American for 18 year olds in this country to register with Selective Service, and God alone knows why tkenny would think we wouldn’t know that.
According to the Selective Service System website, virtually all male U.S. citizens, regardless of where they live, and male immigrants, whether documented or undocumented, residing in the United States, who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service and the law says men must register with Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday.
So it is the law, not a suggestion, even if you are an undocumented male immigrant like these MS-13 dudes beating people to death in Brentwood on Long Island in Progressive Democrat Young Andy Cuomo’s corrupt ****hole of New York state.
How tkenny considers complying with the law to be in-American eludes me, but then, tkennmy has his own separate groove in the record in here, so perhaps in his world, following the law is un-American.
It does take all kinds, afterall, and here in America, we have them, in droves.
It is also not un-American for an 18-year old to register for a driver’s license, and in fact, in a lot of states. one can drive with a restricted license at 16 years of age.
And I similarly doubt that it is un-American for an 18-year old to register a boat, car, the sale of a house, or a marriage license, but if it is, then we must invite our dear friend tkenny back to do a seminar on that subject for us, so we may better understand how that could be so.
tkenny does represent the views of a much younger generation than mine in here, and there are a lot more of them than there are me, me being old and all, so by today’s value system which tkenny is tuned into, it may well be un-America for these children of today to have to do anything, like follow the laws of the older generations who, in the words of seventeen year old Cameron Kasky, a “school shooting survivor” from ritzy, upscale, affluent Parkland, Florida, have totally ****** up the world he lives in.
As to social security numbers, according to the Social Security System website, anyone age 12 or older who requests an original Social Security number must appear in person for an interview, even if a parent or guardian will sign the application on the child’s behalf.
Is that also un-American, tkenny?
And tkenny, dude, this trite (overused and consequently of little import; lacking originality or freshness. banal, hackneyed, vapid, stale, tired) phrase or put down “Paul, go take your meds” is really pretty shop-worn these days, don’t you think, especially as I don’t take any meds, nor do I have a reason to do so, or a desire?
Is it perhaps time to see about a new speechwriter, tkenny, somebody with some newer and less hackneyed put-downs than that tired old phrase left over from the twice-failed Hillary Clinton presidential campaigns?
And yes, tkenny, depending on what state you are in, Big Brother is watching everything we type, looking for keywords like gun, ak-47, ar-15, although I doubt they are stupid enough to fall for the old AK-15 trick you and our dear friend Chas Cornweller are trying to pull on us in here, to see if we would bite!
It is part of modern police procedures in police states like Young Andy Cuomo’s corrupt ****hole of New York to monitor the web, including Facebook, to look for gang signs and who is talking about what.
They even have algorithms to do that now.
So, yes, if the CCM were in NYS, and David Cowan was in New York, openly claiming ownership of an AR-15 as he does in here, that fact would be duly noted, a check would be made to see if he had the weapon registered, and if he didn’t a raid would be made to secure it.
Gun raids to secure weapons are not uncommon up this way, tkenny.
I know police who have to conduct them to secure weapons.
They aren’t gentle about it, tkenny.
David Cowan, a veteran who doesn’t come across as a lunatic, and who sounds like a productive American citizen who goes to work and does his job after educating himself, should not find his door being broken down at 3 in the morning to have his AR-15 confiscated because ditzy Hillary Clinton, who knows about war and weapons from watching Rambo and Mad Maxx movies, thinks it is a “weapon of war.”
Her tongue has caused more war than has an AR-15., thus, it is Hillary Clinton’s tongue that should have to be registered as a dangerous weapon, not David Cowan’s AR-15.
My thoughts, anyway!
Back to you,tkenny, for re-cross, for which we wait with bated breath.
Paul, I’m done. You can’t stay on point. You originally wrote “… that having to report to government offices to get yourself registered is distinctly un-American and therefore quite odious …”
I merely pointed out all the places and times that we, Americans actually do register with the government.
Do you need the definition of sarcasm?
tkenny, historically, when you say you are done, it means you are actually on the run, because you have ran out of rhetorical devices to employ in here to mislead us and lead us astray, and your accusing me of being off-topic in a thread with no real topic other than our dear friend Chas Cornweller’s emotional response to a bunch of children in the park singing songs and carrying signs that mostly say hooray for their side and **** the NRA is as good an excuse as any to cut and run while you still can with a modicum of decorum left to you.
And really, tkenny, do you mistake us all for a pack of imbeciles (a stupid person) with your “I merely pointed out all the places and times that we, Americans actually do register with the government?”
As David Cowan has already point out, those are laws, not Constitutional provisions.
When you register for the draft, tkenny, you are registering yourself, not a possession of yours that is guaranteed to you as a right.
You do that, tkenny, because you are a citizen.
It is an obligation of citizenship, although I bet there are not very many in this country who see it that way today.
In fact. back on November 18, 2003, Gallup had an article on that subject entitled “Public Support for Military Draft Low” by Darren K. Carlson, Government and Politics Editor, where we were informed as follows:
In response to a rising death toll and increased attacks on American troops in Iraq, the U.S. military went back on the offensive last week.
The goal is to curtail Iraqi insurgence as the country undergoes transition to a new government.
To date, more than 420 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq — 281 since President Bush declared an end to major combat in May.
The possibility of a prolonged, guerrilla-style military conflict in Iraq, combined with the continued U.S. military efforts in the war on terrorism, are straining American military reserves — and raising some speculation about the necessity of reinstating the military draft.
However, a recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll* shows a vast majority (80%) feel the United States should not return to the military draft at this time.
Just 17% say the United States should return to the draft.
end quotes
You see what I am saying there, tkenny?
So its apples and oranges, dude!
Registering for the draft has nothing to do with registering the weapons min your house with a government that a majority of people in this country do not trust, because it is not trustworthy.
As to registering for a drivers license, tkenny, that is considered a privilege, not a right.
Consider DriversEd.com on the subject, tkenny:
Driving is a Privilege, Not a Right
Driving is not a constitutional right.
You get your drivers license based on the skills you have and the rules you agree to follow.
After you get your driving license you must continue to demonstrate your ability to drive safely on the road.
If you fail to demonstrate this ability, you will be issued traffic tickets, or even have your license suspended or revoked.
No one has more right to the road than anyone else.
If you’re going to drive, you owe it to the other roadway users and yourself to operate the vehicle in a safe manner.
end quotes
I will say gun owners have a similar obligation to society, but that does extend to them having to tell the government whether or not they have weapons in their house, when they are not deemed in any way to be a threat to society, since those are the people that stable society is based on up here where I am.
And you register register your boat and car, tkenny, if the law requires it, and you are going to take them out into the public domain, so they can be identified in the case you harm someone with them in the public domain.
And you only register motorized boats, tkenny, not all boats, as DMV.org tells us: Smaller vessels like sailboats, a ship’s lifeboat, or a boat that is propelled by oars or paddles do not have to be registered with the state.
And if you have your own pond, you don’t need to register your motor boat to use it on your own land, nor do you have to register a car you use in your fields as a field car.
You register the sale of your house because that too is a law, to protect property and property owners, and mortgage lenders.
As to marriage licenses, tkenny, they are not always required in the first place, as you know, and as you also know, there is no requirement that a marriage license be filed.
Back to you, tkenny, for rebuttal and summation.
Is that what I am for? What a strange question.
I have no idea what you are asking. If Cameron is of voting age and is registered to vote, more power to him. If his view is that his world is screwed up by the current crop of “adults” in power, who am I to say he is wrong. He is as right as you think you are right.
Maybe his generation will look at politics as serving the country not a career.
Maybe his generation will put country above party.
Maybe his generation will understand the meaning of the word “compromise”
Maybe his generation won’t kick balancing the budget down the road
Maybe his generation won’t kick immigration down the road
Maybe his generation will address gun control
Maybe his generation will assure Social Security will continue
Maybe his generation will ensure safe drinking water and protect the environment.
Maybe his generation will realize corporations don’t care about people, they care about stockholders and the bottom line.
Did I answer your question?
No, you didn’t, tkenny.
You ducked it as you usually do, but I’m used to that, so I’m cool with it.
I asked you if is time for the adults in this country, the few that there are left, to go home and get in the basement and turn the world over to the children so they can correct all the ****-ups we so obviously made.
As to Cameron Kasky, he is seventeen years old, he knows of George W. Bush because he has heard some things about him, and he knows everything wrong about the world and how to fix it, if only the adults who ****** everything up would simply go home and get out of his way.
Sounds like just what America needs, isn’t it, tkenny?
As to all that other stuff, tkenny, I look at politics as serving the country not a career.
I put country above party, to my detriment.
And I do understand the meaning of the word “compromise.”
It means to accept standards that are lower than is desirable.
That is why we now have such a third-world ***hole nation, thanks to compromise.
Between them, the Democrats and Republicans have compromised our collective future in this country, but foolishly, people keep voting for them, nonetheless.
And as you remember, tkenny, it was my attempt to ensure safe drinking water and protect the environment for Cameron Kasky’s generation that got me in so much political trouble, so I take some umbrage at him telling me that it is I who ****** up things for his spoiled generation.
If he wants to sling that blame, lay it right at the feet of Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor, for that is where that blame belongs.
As to realizing corporations don’t care about people, they care about stockholders and the bottom line, tkenny, that is old news.
Very old news, in fact.
People have known that for a long time, and still they keep supporting these same corporations.
Go figure that one out, tkenny, because it eludes me as to why that should be so.
That’s is such a stupid question. Aren’t they the ones who inherit the mess you leave?
Having a little problem with those pesky teenagers, Paul?
Alexander the Great founded his first colony at age 16
Louis Braille invented the Braille system at age 15
Balamuraili Ambati was a Doctor at age 17
Saira Blair was elected into Government at age 18 (West Virginia, House of Delegates)
Malala Yousafzai won the Nobel Peace Prize at the age of 17
Nick D’Aloisio sold an app to Yahoo for 3 million at the age of 17
Bobby Fischer was a Chess Grand Master at age of 15
Suhas Gopinath became the worlds youngest CEO at age 17
Mary Queen of Scots ruled two nations at the age of 18
Mark Zuckerberg founded Facebook at the age of 19
Anyone of your list over 18 is not germane, as the age was set as UNDER 18. By you.
Anyone who existed over 60 years ago may as well have lived on a different planet, one not corrupted by progressivism. Gee, Obamacare now says ‘kids’ are kids up to 26 ……….using Alexander as an example is insipid, he also died at 33.
Now, go follow your Tide eating, condom snorting kids……right off that bridge they are selling.
Mike, what’s wrong? Bocce court not open? I don’t think “I” set the age to under 18 but feel free to throw out the 19 year old. I can find more 18 and younger ones for the list.
“Anyone who existed over 60 years ago may as well have lived on a different planet” You’re right they probably did but that doesn’t diminish the fact that they were exceptional at a young age. The Obamacare remark? – not germane. Nice dig.
What the hell is corrupted progressivism?
And I know you’re a fan of fancy words but I’m not sure your use of insipid is correct. Insipid – tasteless, dull, boring. Also, who cares that he died at 33. This isn’t about health it’s about achievement.
Mike, I’ll really disappoint with you this was a very weak comeback.
Uh, pardon me for being real stupid here, tkenny, but is there any possible relevance of any of that, especially the reference to Mark Zuckerberg, who sold out quite a few FACEBOOKERS and is now facing government scrutiny for that in two different countries, to the question of whether law-abiding, loyal American citizens should voluntarily surrender a right they have pursuant to the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution to a government in this country that cannot be trusted with any of our rights, starting with equal protection of law and due process of law, both of which have been rendered as jokes by this government we cannot trust with our rights as American citizens.
And what is with this foolish question you have posed to me above here, tkenny: “Aren’t they the ones who inherit the mess you leave?”
Which exact mess is that, tkenny?
Please quantify and elucidate, if you can, of course.
We’re a patient people in here.
We will wait for your response.
And let me say right now how glad I am that the management of the Cape Charles Mirror is so egalitarian that it lets us lesser lights in here along with you resident librawls to discuss these issues of importance to all American citizens.
If this was some partisan site like Democrats Underground, our contrary voices would never be heard, because we would never get in the door.
Got to run right now, tkenny, but I will be back to address you other question about “Having a little problem with those pesky teenagers, Paul?”
“If Cameron is of voting age” In America, that’s 18.
Exceptional at a young age when EVERYONE was ‘grown up’ at 16 is just exceptional. Ergo, his age was irrelevant. I put his age at death in there to see if you’d make that leap, but had little hope you’d see the connection.
The Obamacare remark is YOUR side stating that ‘children’ exist up to age 26.
Corrupted BY progressivism. ALL words matter, donchaknow.
And speaking of that, why did you provide synonyms of insipid, but not the definition? Lacking flavor, lacking vigor or intensity. Your use of ATG was lacking vigor, intellectual or otherwise.
But, syntax and grammer errors aside, your reply was as asinine as I expected.
And what’s with the Bocce comment? Are you a racist against Italians? I realize that the entire history of the Democrat party is one of racial hatred and terror(IE: The KKK, Bull Conor, Jim Crow) but darn, now you are going after Italians?
Sheesh, such hatred on the left. It’s why so many of you are mass killers and psychopaths.
Bocce is a wonderful low impact sport for you elderly people. Also the social aspect of it is a benefit too. It’s good to get out and talk to people. I thought maybe because of the cold weather you were unable to play today and that made you really grouchy. There was no slight to the Italians.
As usual Paul, you steer the conversation off topic and to whatever point you want to get across. How did you get from the whether the government would take away your firearms, to the law requires registration vs a constitutional right?
Again, you said “… that having to report to government offices to get yourself registered is distinctly un-American and therefore quite odious …. to an American citizen.” “Get yourself registered”, pretty vague there isn’t.
I merely pointed out all the times that Americans register with the government. So Americans are not unfamiliar with the concept. The government, based on those registrations have never confiscated property of law abiding citizens.
Are you for gun control, Paul? Yes or No? Why would the government take away the firearms of a law abiding citizens. Paul, do us all a favor, if you are going to answer, answer the those two questions. Otherwise, this debate, conversation, chat ends here
Wow, racism and now ageism. Dude, get help……..you are truly a racist.
An angry, bitter racist lefty.
Liberals must not be allowed to sit in judgment of who is mentally unfit to own a gun, for they feel that anyone wanting to own a gun is mentally unfit, just for wanting to own one.
Dead on, Stuart Bell!
There is animus and barely repressed rage towards older people that does seep out of the writings of our dear friend and protagonist for something in here, tkenny, although it may well be more of the rhetorical flourishes and ornamentation that tkenny is so famous for in here.
Although it just as well could be a rebellion on the part of tkenny as to what he perceives to be “authority figures” in here because of our advanced age.
Either way, the hostility tkenny displays towards older people is quite visceral and palpable, and therefore, perceivable.
One has to seriously wonder whether tkenny is one of those pushing for the introduction of Soylent Green in America as a means of dealing with old people in this country.
Or if he would have us registering for that lottery to get stoned to death when we reach a certain age that I read about somewhere, although that might be a part of the Soylent Green program when you think about it.
Let’s ask tkenny when he gets here about it.
That is the best way to find out, I think.
I’ll answer for Paul.
1. Nope, against them. What we have- the ones that are NOT enforced- are sufficient.
2. To control the people and enslave them. See Nazi Germany, Venezuela, Cuba ad infinitum.
As for your registration claims, most of my generation used Nixon’s SS when we registered for the draft- now the Selective Service. See, even we hippies THEN knew that a registration of people was UNAMERICAN. Your other examples are situations where we accept the Governments right to tax and track our PRIVILEGES…is: driving, owning car etc.. Privileges, not RIGHTS. Ya know, the 2nd amendment doesn’t grant us the right to own weapons, it simply states that that is a RIGHT we OWN unequivocally, given by God no man may take it away. That’s why it’s called a RIGHT, not a privilege.
See how stupid you kids are? You don’t even know the difference.
But LOVE your fascist statement………Answer or this conversation is over!!!!!
TWANLOC. Go slip your chains back on.
Trust me, I much rather converse with you. I can read your comments within a few seconds/minutes.
Again, the point was the government already a lot of information on you, whether you are legally required to give it to them doesn’t matter. Have they used this information to confiscate any possessions? No. Why would they confiscate firearms? Do you think some fool is going to be able to defend himself with an Ar-15? against the government? Silly. Or as a group “we will stand against our corrupt government, rifles in hand!” lol, good luck with that.
You, like the NRA have no basis to say the government will take your firearms. You have the right to free speech, however you can not yell fire in a crowded theater. You have the right to bear arms however you must register that firearm. you must ensure that firearm is secured, you must ensure that a stolen firearm is reported.. etc. Would that really be such a hard ship. The laws need to be federal, it’s too easy to purchase a firearm in one state and bring it to another.
As I mentioned before I don’t care if people have firearms. The problem is the NRA failed to police itself and now the masses are rising up and that always turns ugly.
One more thing – why when I purchase a drug that contains pseudoephedrine I have to sign for it but I don’t need do a background check for a private sale of a firearm?
“One more thing – why when I purchase a drug that contains pseudoephedrine I have to sign for it but I don’t need do a background check for a private sale of a firearm?”
The existence of one stupid law does not justify the acceptance of other stupid laws.
What has registering your pseudoephedrine done for society? Nothing good. In one case I know of it resulted in the police smashing into her house with a dynamic entry because a grandmother had forgotten that she already purchased some earlier in the week.
The “War on Drugs” in action. Now we need a “War on Guns”.
tkenny is very adept in here at the skillful employment of a method of argumentation known among the legal trade in corrupt NYS as the “Dame Snow Jeopardy” for reasons that are obscure to me, but that aside, when employing the “Dame Snow Jeopardy” as tkenny does in here, you start with the conclusion you want your audience to accept and embrace, and then you work backwards from there, arranging your facts, throwing out all those that would clash with the conclusion you want to reach, in such an order as to lead one to the pre-arrived-at conclusion, in this case, guns are bad and must be registered with the good government to protect us from ourselves and our out-of-control passions and emotions, which you are displaying in here, David Cowan by being for guns and by questioning tkenny’s conclusions.
Being for guns is a sign that you should not have guns.
Of course, if one looks at all the side effects of Pseudoephedrine, which include nervousness, restlessness or excitability (especially in children), dizziness, headache, fear, anxiety, loss of appetite, sleep problems(insomnia), skin rash, itching, tremors, hallucinations, convulsions(seizures), nausea, vomiting, and flushing (warmth, tingling, or redness under your skin), another alternative theory is that we are hearing the Pseudoephedrine talking through tkenny’s mouth.
He should stop worrying about guns and get himself off that ****, although with the dizziness and fear and anxiety and hallucinations caused by the Pseudoephedrine, he is likely unable to see the clear path here.
We should pray for him as a nation, is my thought, and get out there en masse to start chanting over and over and over, “HEY HEY HO HO THE PSEUDOEPHEDRINE HAS GOT TO GO!”
He is one of us, afterall, and that is the least we can do for him, when he deserves so much more.
Oh David, we both know the little grandmother story is a lie, it didn’t happen, you made that up. Let me guess they used flash bangs too.
You are drinking too much of the NRA Koolaid. If you do a background check on a retail sale, there should also be a background check on a private sale.
As far as a stupid law, the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act was not intended to solve the meth lab problems but it did shutdown easy access to a main ingredient.
tkenny,
Perhaps you are one of the 15-20 people in the US who still thinks the War on Drugs is a good idea. You are in good company: Donald Trump and Beauregard Sessions. Maybe you have more in common with them than you first thought.
In research there are different kinds of measures that are considered. Some are called endpoints, where one measures an endpoint, such as death. It doesn’t get much more endpoint than that.
Another kind of variable measured is called a “process variable”, a factor that is between an exposure and an endpoint. Sometimes these process variables are associated with the endpoint, sometimes not.
One kind of a process variable is the firearms background check. On the surface, it sounds great. The Brady Bunch and others who hate guns brag that they stop a bunch of gun sales to people who are not allowed to have guns. But what they never talk about is the relationship between background checks and impact on endpoints of interest. That is, gun violence. Remember, the Brady Bunch was predicting all sorts of great things from the Brady law.
Well, what is known about the effectiveness of background checks? You can read it here. I mean, you MAY read it here. I don’t know if you CAN read it here. But here it is: http://home.uchicago.edu/ludwigj/papers/JAMA_Brady_2000.pdf Let me help you a bit: Based on the assumption that the greatest reductions in fatal violence would be within states that were required to institute waiting periods and back-ground checks, implementation of the Brady Act appears to have been associated with
reductions in the firearm suicide rate for persons aged 55 years or older but not with reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates.
A summary for you, tkenny: the Brady law did not impact the homicide rate or the overall suicide rate. There was an association with a reduction in suicide among one age group. This reduction among one specific group is likely a statistical anomaly.
A similar situation exists with the silly law regarding pseudoephedrine. There may have been a reduction in its availability to crack manufacturers (I don’t know, perhaps you will tell us), but it has had no impact on the availability of the drug.
I don’t understand why you are such a fan of laws that have only unintended consequences. Are also a big fan of civil asset forfeiture? How about militarization of police?
https://www.theindychannel.com/news/grandma-s-arrest-highlights-trouble-tracking-meth-makers
Here’s the link to the story that Tkenny says didn’t happen………
Um, Tkenny? I think that what didn’t happen was your education. Maybe you wanna go back to school?
Hell, you think I am both old, and Italian. When I am neither.
Some ignorance can be fixed, are you up to the challenge?
Do I really think a few Americans armed with AR-15’s can hold off the Government?
Um, Derp? The Tsarneaev brothers closed down Bahstan for DAYS with ONE little pistol.
So, yes. Yes I do.
Didi mau!!
Mike, you don’t need to be Italian to play bocce, just like you don’t need to be British to play cricket
The Boston police shut down Boston, not the brothers. They didn’t know what they had until they caught him. The delay was they wanted him alive and not put any officers in danger.
As far as you and your merry friends holding off the “government” with your AR-15’s – police probably yes. SWAT , eh you life expectancy might be 15 minutes on an assault. The military? Not a chance. From 3,000 miles away they can id you, take you out and the city block you are on all before their cup of coffee goes cold.
So the fallacy of you defending your right against the government is just that. If the government decides to ignore the law you’re just toast.
WOW, you lefties are truly taking off the mask……..so, to you it is perfectly ok to obliterate an entire BLOCK of your fellow citizens just to take away MY guns.
You are a sick sick man.
tkenny,
I suppose you have never heard of 4th Generation Warfare, asymmetric warfare…
One does not need to overthrow a government to make it change its policies. One just needs to make it sufficiently uncomfortable for a government NOT to change its policies.
My goodness, tkenny, dude, what tough talk from you there!
How frightening, almost.
Am I for “gun control,” tkenny?
My goodness, of course, tkenny!
I have been for gun control all my life.
There are a lot of people out there, tkenny, who really should not have access to guns of any kind, but you know what, with all of the guns that exist just in this country, not to mention all the guns we have exported all over the world, as the world’s top exporter of weapons of war and violence to the dictators we prop up around the world, as well as to the militias we arm to topple them, picture Diem in VEET NAM, it is impossible to keep guns out of their hands.
Look at that federal parolee who killed Lt. Finn with an illegal TEC-9 in Young Andy Cuomo’s corrupt capital city of Albany, New York back when.
If anybody would know and understand that it was against quite a few laws to have an illegal automatic weapon and to rob a store with it and then kill a cop, you would think it would have to e a federal parolee, but if you did, tkenny, you would be wrong.
So if you can’t keep an illegal weapon out of the hands of a federal parolee who is a cop killer in the capital city, a sanctuary city by the way, of New York state, the seat of emperors in the EMPIRE STATE, with all the laws against all of that that already exist, including it being against the law to discharge a firearm within so many feet of a dwelling, which precludes firing an illegal automatic pistol on a city street in Albany, N.Y., then what are the laws that we are missing?
There is where I must admit my confusion!
What law could we impose, tkenny, that would have made that cop killer realize it was against the law to kill a cop with an illegal weapon in Albany, N.Y.?
Don’t hold it to yourself in some kind of foolish, childish got’cha game!
We’re desperate for answers, tkenny, so, please give us some!
We implore you!
So, how about you, tkenny, where is it that you stand on the matter of gun control?
And how on earth can you think I am not for gun control, tkenny, when I ask you above here to join with me in getting a weapons ban put in place barring those on the psych drug Welbutrin, and drugs with the same symptoms, specifically, rage, from having access to any kinds of weapons, including knives and bows and arrows, but specifically, projectile weapons like rifles and shotguns.
Those people should be put on a list, but you know what, tkenny, and of course you do, because librawls want their privacy protected, nobody can know they are on that ****, so, there won’t be no list, unless you and I together (stronger together, afterall) stand up to these librawls and get these people’s weapons taken away from them for the good of society.
Are you for that. tkenny?
Or are you against that?
And please, tkenny, it is a yes or no question, so don’t do the dither dance in here like you always do when ducking and dodging around the tough issues you aren’t equipped to handle.
As to “gun control.” tkenny, this is what our favorite source Wikipedia has to say about it:
Gun control (or firearms regulation) is the set of laws or policies that regulate the manufacture, sale, transfer, possession, modification, or use of firearms by civilians.
end quotes
In this country, tkenny, those controls have existed for quite some time, longer than I have been alive, so I’m accustomed to them, tkenny.
None of them directly confront me, so I have no legal standing to challenge them, as you would well know, being associated with people in the legal trade as you say you are.
Getting back to Wikipedia, tkenny, jurisdictions that regulate access to firearms typically restrict access to only certain categories of firearms and then to restrict the categories of persons who will be granted a firearms license to have access to a firearm.
end quotes
In this country, tkenny, and to me as a combat veteran, this makes ultimate sense, real weapons of war like machine guns are restricted weapons, and so they should be.
Nobody needs a military machine gun to hunt with.
Military machine guns have only one purpose, and that is to kill people.
Look at the Gatling gun, for example, tkenny, or a Maxim gun, which was a weapon invented by American-British inventor Hiram Stevens Maxim in 1883.
It was the first recoil-operated machine gun, tkenny, and it has been called “the weapon most associated with the British imperial conquest,” and likewise was used in colonial wars by other countries between 1886–1914.
Now, there, tkenny, is a real weapon of war, and you have got to be kidding us in here if you say people should have access to one of those to go deer hunting with.
You don’t hunt deer with a Maxim gun, tkenny, so leave them banned, thank you very much for that.
As to gun control, tkenny, it refers to domestic regulation of firearm manufacture, trade, possession, use, and transport, specifically with regard to the class of weapons referred to as small arms (revolvers and self-loading pistols, rifles and carbines, assault rifles, submachine guns and light machine guns).
Is that what you are against, tkenny?
Why?
Help us out here, tkenny!
The candid world would like to know.
And getting back to this bushel basket of red meat our dear friend tkenny has tossed us here @ April 5, 2018 at 12:08 am, where he gave us his list if who he considers heroes, we start as follows:
Alexander the Great founded his first colony at age 16
end quotes
Yes, he did, by force of arms, with the aid of the Sarissa, tkenny, a long spear or pike about 4–6 metres (13–20 ft) in length that Alexander’s cavalry used to skewer the first two or three or more ranks of enemy infantry, so they couldn’t fall down, and thus blocked the troops behind them, who often broke and ran when they saw their buddies in front of them made into shish-ke-bob.
Your choice of the obsessed Alexander the Great, who was not an American citizen, as one of your teenaged heroes in here is both interesting and revealing, as the dude was a mass murderer, having been credited with killing over a hundred thousand people, although the true number will likely never be known.
According to history as I have studied it https://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultural/09476/afgh02-04enl.html , with his conquest of Achaemenid Empire complete, the Persian army in collapse, and both Susa and Persepolis under his control, Alexander the Great’s ultimate prize — the capture of the emperor Darius III — was within his grasp.
But the prize was denied him by Bessus the Achaemenid satrap (regional governor) of Bactria and Sogdia (in present-day northern Afghanistan and southern Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan).
Bessus murdered the fleeing Darius, crowned himself the emperor of Persia and King of Asia and retreated to his fortress capital in the mountains of Bactria.
Alexander had little choice but to capture Bessus by following him into a region that many invaders have found impossible to conquer.
In a fateful campaign that would cut short the life of the most ambitious warrior in history, Alexander led his vast army of Macedonians, Greeks, Persian conscripts and mercenaries from many regions into present-day Afghanistan in 330 BC.
First contact was made with the chieftain of the city we now call Herat.
Less interested in conquering this remote desert city than in pursuing Bessus, Alexander sought peace with the local Herat ruler and left a handful of Greek soldiers at the Herat citadel to maintain order before continuing north to Bactria.
Yet within a day, the Herat populace killed the Greeks, forcing Alexander to return, destroy the citadel and build a new Greek-style fortress atop the foundations.
Those foundations still occupy the center of Herat, where a Timurid-period fortress now stands.
The type of guerilla-style fighting that Alexander faced during the Afghan campaign was described centuries later by the chronicler Plutarch, who compared Afghan tribesmen to a hydra-headed monster: as soon as Alexander cut off one head, three more would grow back in its place.
Always fearful of leaving his southern and eastern flank exposed in his pursuit of Bessus to the North, Alexander undertook a massive building campaign, erecting a series of fortresses (miniature “Alexandrias”) in a giant arc from Herat in the west to Kandahar in the south to the Oxus (Amu Darya) River in the north and beyond into present-day Kazakstan and Tajikistan.
At each of these fortresses, Alexander left behind hundreds or thousands of Macedonian and Greek soldiers as well as logistics and supply troops, builders, artisans, tillers and every type of workers needed to create a real settlement.
end quotes
No wonder you are so enthralled with the dude, tkenny.
Reminds me of that story of Obama on one of his overseas trips being found weeping at the base of a statue to Alexander the Great.
When asked why, Obama is reputed ‘I have just cause to weep, when I consider that Alexander as a teenager had conquered so many nations, when I have all this time done nothing that is memorable!”
And yes, tkenny, at the age of 19, Mark Zuckerberg founded Facebook, and at the young age of 33 is now having to appear before two different governments, one in the United States, one in Britain, to answer charges that he violated the rights of millions of people by selling their private information to enrich himself.
Some American hero that dude is.
And why have you excluded thirteen-year-old Charles King from your list, tkenny?
Charles King was the youngest soldier killed in the entire American Civil War (1861–1865).
Charles enlisted in the 49th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry with the reluctant permission of his father at the age of 12 years, 5 months and 9 days.
Hearing the sounds of guns being fired, like a good American citizen, he went towards them instead of pulling a David Hogg and hiding in a closet.
Is that why you left him off your list, so as to not embarrass David Hogg and Cameron Kasky, who didn’t?
tkenny, You are just too easy.
I meant to include this link:
While shopping with her husband in Quincy, Florida, on July 19, 2010, Mickey Goodson stopped by a Winn-Dixie drugstore to pick up some allergy pills. The pharmacist on duty suggested she buy two boxes of Sudafed, which she did. Thus began Goodson’s entanglement with the criminal justice system, which featured searches of her car and home, along with drug charges that were not dropped until September 2011.
According to a lawsuit that Goodson filed earlier this month, she and her husband were accosted by Gadsden County sheriff’s deputies as they left the pharmacy. The deputies confiscated the Sudafed, searched the couple’s car, and instructed Goodson and her husband to follow them to the Gadsden County Sheriff’s Office. At the office Deputy William Buckhalt asked Goodson and her husband if he could search their home, presumably to verify that they were not using Sudafed to make methamphetamine. Not without a warrant, they said. “Oh, I’ll get a search warrant,” Buckhalt replied, according to Goodson’s complaint.
And he did get a warrant, although a judge eventually decided that it was invalid because Buckhalt had withheld crucial information from the magistrate who approved it. As deputies served the warrant later that day, according to the lawsuit, one of them asked Goodson, “What have you gotten rid of?” To which Goodson replied, “I don’t know what you are talking about!” According to Goodson’s complaint, she was handcuffed on her front porch and charged with “possession of a controlled substance.” Possessing pseudoephedrine is a crime in Florida if you buy more than the legal limit or plan to make methamphetamine with it.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/28/one-box-of-sudafed-over-the-line-florida
A few months ago, Sally Harpold bought a box of Zyrtec-D allergy medicine for her husband at a pharmacy in Rockville, Indiana. Less than a week later, she bought a box of Mucinex-D cold medicine for her adult daughter at a drugstore in Clinton. Isn’t it sad that you already know where this story is headed?
Early on the morning of July 30, Harpold and her husband were awakened by police banging on the door of their home. The officers hauled her away in handcuffs, charging the “grandmother of triplets” (the Terre Haute Tribune-Star’s descriptor) with a Class C misdemeanor, which carries a penalty of a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail. Harpold’s mug shot appeared on the front page of the local paper, under the headline “17 Arrested in Drug Sweep.” Her crime: buying more than three grams of pseudoephedrine, a decongestant that also happens to be a methamphetamine precursor, in a seven-day period. She was six-tenths of a gram over the legal limit in Indiana, which is much stingier than the maximum allowed by federal law (3.6 grams a day, nine grams a month). Harpold was not aware of the state limit, but as the Tribune-Review notes, “ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
http://reason.com/blog/2009/09/30/put-down-the-cold-pills-grandm
David, thank you very much for the summary. I can read and indeed you seemed to have glossed over a paragraph or two
” More importantly, the effects of primary-market gun regulations may depend on the extent to which the secondary market in guns is regulated. Secondary-market sales account for about 40% of the approximately 10 million gun transfers in the United States each year and are the source for the large majority of guns obtained by juveniles and criminals. The secondary market in guns, which is currently almost completely unregulated, is thus an enormous loophole that limits the effectiveness of primary market regulations”
Then the authors go and state that the study detected no reductions in homicide rates. So what’s your point? There is nothing wrong with the law, it’s the loopholes that need to be closed.
And about that ” silly law regarding pseudoephedrine” – I’m not sure if you are laughing at the law or the implementation of it but there are 17,985 law enforcement agencies in the United States, 12, 501 happened to be local police and you come up with 2 knucklehead moves by law enforcement. So that means the laws is invalid?
Next time you walk away from a car accident you can thank the government for the seatbelt, the air bag and the side impact resiliency. Not all rules and laws are bad. On wait, those Federal Standards sound like some liberal thought them up
tkenny,
The secondary market actually accounts for more like 20% than 40% . The 40% number is bogus. Most criminals obtain their guns by stealing them, or buying them from their friends who have stolen them. There is a body of literature on the topic. I suggest you looks elsewhere than to the source who gave you the 40% number. Very few crime guns come from gun shows where background checks are by-passed.
Yes, that law really is silly. And do you really think that there were just two silly arrests of people making silly mistakes? Just like there are only a few mistakes where police kill people “by accident”. But yes, the law is still not worthwhile and you have shared nothing that indicates otherwise. Why have a law that does not reduce the production of meth while ensnaring grandmothers with no criminal intent. Perhaps you just don’t like grandmothers.
Interesting you should mention car safety. There are about 32,000 accidental car-related deaths a year, compared to about 500 accidental gun-related deaths a year. Essentially all car-related deaths are unintentional, while essentially all gun-related deaths are intentional.
The reduction in car-related deaths have come from a combination of training, education, and engineering controls. Engineering controls are designed to reduce the likelihood of an UNINTENTIONAL event happening, or reducing the damage should an event occur. Engineering controls work pretty good for unintentional events, but not so much when someone does something on purpose.
Accidental gun deaths have been declining for decades, and are at or near record level lows now. Why? I don’t really know. The NRA has been teaching gun safety for decades, in classes for adults and for children. There haven’t been any engineering controls to amount to anything, but maybe you know more (and the chances of that are excellent…).
In spite of the fact that there are more guns than ever, with MILLIONS added every year, more people carrying concealed than ever before, and more semi-automatic rifles and handguns than ever before, the gun violence rate has dropped about 50 percent since 1991. Can you think of any public policy that could possibly match that?
David, you are the source for my number, the 40% came from your article/link, so if you want to stick by your believe that background checks do nothing then you must also believe the fact about the secondary market.
This statement is just out right silly – “Very few crime guns come from gun shows where background checks are by-passed.” Why is that? Only law abiding citizens, may the admission to get into gun shows?
Maybe you should read about why the law regarding pseudoephedrine was created. At one point in time, in certain areas retailers couldn’t keep the shelves full of products containing pseudoephedrine because they were either walking away from the shelf or being purchased in mass quantities. So it did close access to an easily accessible source of an ingredient for making meth.
David, please don’t attempt to equate car related deaths to gun related deaths. That’s apples and oranges. How many cars do you think are on the road at this very hour? This month? This year? All deaths are tragic but what percentage is 32,000 car deaths? Now do that with guns. How many are being used right now? How many deaths are the result? Unfortunately, I don’t have to belong to the NRA or take a firearms training course before purchasing a firearm, so, so much for their training.
And a comment on your last statement. The number of firearms sold has nothing to do with gun violence. We both know that a sportsman might have on average 10 or more firearms. Check this link out for some sobering news – http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/Brady-Campaign-5Year-Gun-Deaths-Injuries-Stats_02-22-2018.pdf
The Brady campaign is a totally partisan organization and I would not accept their numbers if they were counting their toes.
And once again, TWANLOC I say to you……
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”.
Now go slip your chains back on, and enjoy what your masters allow you.